April 27th, 2016

Ex-WoW dev Mark Kern will take vanilla server petition to Mike Morhaime

Ex-WoW dev Mark Kern will take vanilla server petition to Mike Morhaime

Earlier this week the World of Warcraft community lost access to the private vanilla Nostalrius servers and a petition was launched.

As expected, the servers went dark this week which prompted the launch of a petition requesting Blizzard launch vanilla WoW servers. The petition as of writing has over 110,000 signatures and the community is encouraging anyone who wants to see Blizzard launch vanilla WoW servers to get their name down.

In the past day, Ex-Blizzard World of Warcraft team lead Mark Kern has joined the discussion and has put his support behind the movement.

“If we can get 200k sigs on this petition, I will personally send it to Mike Morhaime. But if we’re going to convince Blizzard, we need more than 100k. 100k is well, not enough to move them. My guess is that if Nostalrius can do 850k signups, then there are probably a couple million who would do legacy.”

“It doesn’t matter if Blizzard cares, it matter if we care enough to push them to do it. So please send a message to Blizzard to listen to their fans. Sign the petition so I can bring it to Blizzard.”

The idea of launching official legacy servers would make sense, it has worked well for Jagex with their Runescape legacy servers and it may even bring WoW players back to the game which would be good for Blizzard as WoW numbers continue to decline.

World of Warcraft is an old game now, it’s more than a decade old, and while Blizzard has done a reasonably good job keeping it fresh with new expansions, it’s quite a different game compared to the original release.

If there’s a slight chance that Blizzard would support the idea of launching legacy servers, the community is going to have to request it in significant numbers. That might be hard to achieve but never say never.

Directly related to this story

why he’s backing the petition

Related to this article
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  • World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth will launch simultaneously in all regions
  • World of Warcraft: Battle for Azeroth launching in August
  • Comments: 45
    • Bobby Barker

      If blizzard brought back vanilla wow, I’d immediately start stocking up on Cheetos and red bull to begin the azeroth grind one more time.

      • Paul Younger

        I think the questions is whether you would keep playing to sustain the support needed to run it. I am not sure if once that nostalgia feeling had gone the servers would become barren?

        • David

          I heard Nostalrius had 150K or something active users. That’s more than a year after its launch. And that’s an unofficial server. So yeah, I think people would stick with it even after the initial ‘nostalgia’ hit’s over.

          • Bobby Barker

            Ah, for some reason I heard of a 800k number. 150k sounds more realistic. I’d think official blizzard could round up at least 350k. That’s a decent chunk.

            • Mitchell Evan

              800k registered accounts, 150k active users.

          • BitWraith

            That those gamers WEREN’T paying for. That makes a big difference. Sure they’ll play Vanilla for free, but will they pony up fifteen clams a month for the honor?

            • Alex Hubbard

              I can say I would at least, but I’m an old hand that played way back when during beta as well. Suffice to say it might not be as many players, but if even half as many as signed up for Nostalrius do so for a legacy server it’d at least help stem the bleeding of subscribers Blizzard currently has going.

              • Karine Grandstaff

                1 blizzard server is 10k active player, 1 server is not a lot

              • Alex Hubbard

                The Nostalrius numbers have been mentioned before though. Half of the active player base they had would amount to 75k active players split between say one PvE and one PvP vanilla server. Nothing that would save an MMO, but not something Blizzard would be unwelcome to have either. Suffice to say it’s all done and over now and Blizzard was within their rights to remove the server, but it would have looked better from a PR standpoint to do something similar to the private servers of Everquest.

            • Mshake1

              Most of the people playing on Nost also had 100’s on Retail. Myself included. I just prefer the vanilla game much more. I still pay my 15 a month, and will soon pay extra so I can play yet another expansion…

            • korval

              In a heartbeat I would pay. I would even pay the normal $15 sub plus a $5 legacy addon to my sub. I’ve seen, heard, and read numerous people say they would pay $15 or $20 per month.

              The money is there. Blizzard just has to make it happen.

              • Theo WolF

                So close, but not quite understanding the issue. All these people are wanting blizzard to provide a free game. WoW 1.x is not the same code base, it is not the same game. The time it would take to just bring 1.x up to Battle.net is not trivial. Maintaining the code base. The servers. All the other overhead. For free?

                No, wait, you’d cough up a whole $5 for access to a different game.

                I’ll say it again: WoW 1.x is not WoW 6.x.

                Which set of bugs do you want time locked in?

              • korval

                > For free?

                What are you going on about? I said I, and many others, would pay the normal subscription fee. We would even be willing to pay the normal sub fee ($15) PLUS an additional $5 for legacy content. So we would cough up a whole $20 per month.

                > I’ll say it again: WoW 1.x is not WoW 6.x.

                Exactly, which is why many of us want vanilla. It’s a completely different game.

                > Which set of bugs do you want time locked in?

                I’m not sure what you’re saying but I think you mean something like “Which set of bugs do you want to be locked into”. If that’s the case those of us who chose to play on vanilla know the game has bugs, and we’re okay with them mainly because the game is fun to play.

              • Theo WolF

                Again you miss the point while, simultaneously, touting it. WoW 1.x is a different game. Are you saying that you (and “others”) would pay $15 + $5 to play vanilla WoW? If so, what is the ‘plus’ for? Or, as it reads to me, are you saying you want Blizz to offer another game (1.x) for $5/month in addition to a regular WoW (live) subscription?

              • korval

                I didn’t miss anything. You don’t know how to communicate. I gave up on the rest of your reply because it makes no sense.

        • Bobby Barker

          Well, if the amount of people that were playing on Nostalrius (850000 active?) played on a regular basis using an older sub-based model, I would think that would translate over to a decent % increase in numbers playing their game.
          I obviously don’t have the numbers to base that against what it would cost for an official blizzard arm of vanilla to run. Servers, customer service, planning, bug fixing, hiring another team to develop, run, maintain, etc all cost $.
          At this point I think blizzard can win an extremely important battle – getting old customers back. If blizzard took an aggressive stance and did this for reasons other than making money, they could win back some player base while still hooking new players into their current wow, StarCraft, and that shooter game their releasing officially soon.
          Thoughts?
          edit:
          your point is valid.
          but I see other companies running official alternative servers successfully (my definition of successfully is that they are up and running, and supported) I don’t have a doubt blizzard can do this right if they wanted to.

        • Thor Wiingaard

          I played pretty consistently for the whole period it was open, which was little over a year. I even got some retail friends to try it out and they were enjoying it. The real problem comes when Naxx is on farm, what do people do then?

        • korval

          150k active accounts. 800k registered accounts. Nostalrius was a year old. Plenty of us were playing for a year. We were waiting for AQ40; which would’ve been the next update before the shutdown happened. So yes, the support would be sustained.

        • Rico Peavey

          Yes, agree with David, paul younger your question is nothing but a troll, keep up with the times, you are just repeating what blizz said years ago

    • Chris Darrow

      I would sign up for a vanilla WoW account in a heart beat from Blizzard. I so miss the original WoW. I miss the oriignal Everquest even more but still.

      • Haurchefant

        Project 1999 man! Classic EQ server, has 1,300 players on at most times that I check AND it has been given the approval of Daybreak Game’s. It’s great to be back there again.

    • Operating Thetan

      Looks like everyone in here thinks that taking something that doesn’t belong to you and making whatever you like with it is perfectly ok. Even if Nostalrius didn’t monetize it, they exploited a 60 million dollars software that they didn’t invest a dime on. That’s wrong, that’s hurting the gaming industry and it just profits to a bunch of nostalgic neckbeards that can’t bear it’s not 2005 anymore.

      • Alex Hubbard

        This is very similar to gaming companies complaining about emulators and roms back in the mid 2000’s. Just as with Nostalrius, all of those old NES and SNES era games weren’t made by the people distributing them, but the simple fact of the matter is that there was no way to both get copies of those games and have the profits go to the actual developer (either you were buying it on E-bay or possibly from a used retro gaming store). No one can legitimately argue that Blizzard wasn’t within their rights to take down these private servers, however, with no other way to play vanilla WoW (something that is very much different than current WoW) it’s entirely unsurprising that these private servers come about, much like the popularity of roms of old games. Once Blizzard does the bear minimum of making a single legacy server for fans of the old version of WoW then these private servers will largely fade.

        As for this, “…that’s hurting the gaming industry and it just profits to a bunch of nostalgic neckbeards that can’t bear it’s not 2005 anymore.” just like the roms mentioned earlier, vanilla WoW servers don’t hurt the gaming industry because, simply put, no one is offering a vanilla WoW experience. That changes the moment Blizzard makes a legacy server. I also didn’t realize that once a fun game reached a certain age it wasn’t ok to like playing it anymore. I better never go back and play Mario 3 on the NES or Contra III on the SNES. That or just maybe if a game is good it can always be good :P.

        • itomeshi

          Actually, this is vitally different in a large number of ways:

          – Non-segregated content and code: Like most game devs, Blizzard doesn’t likely have separated content and code – they work together. This is generally more performant, but doesn’t allow going back in time like this… You’re setting up a new structure from scratch. (And it’s not as simple as just removing every continent except the first two. Do NOT think class design is simple to roll back either.
          – New hardware: Blizz has repeatedly said the original hardware is no more; they did auction it off for charity. As such, they would need to get new hardware (including enough to cover a surge of interest) and make it work with the rest of the stack.
          – New support software: Let’s argue, and this is without knowing much behinds the scenes, that Blizzard used Tomcat to host the application. Great – I hope that old WoW code is compatible with newer versions of system libraries. Why are they so different? Because…
          – Security changes: Over the last decade, security models for network-based apps have changed substantially. As an example, in 2005, TLS 1.0 wasn’t even out yet, so basic SSL 3.0 was the security standard du jour. Now, SSL3 is considered worthless. You don’t think script kiddies like Lizard Squad would look at an out-of-date server architecture as an invitation? Authenticators wouldn’t exist.
          – Different Battle.Net – remember, original WoW did talk to Battle.net in very limited ways. Now, those ways would break.
          – Bug fixes: Remember Nagle’s algorithm, and how you all thought it was related to Nat Pagle? It wasn’t, but it originally wasn’t in the game or didn’t work right. Without it, actions lag far worse. Welcome back, pre-Nagle world!
          – New player hardware and software – Oh, yeah, you know how when new card X came out WoW would crash about 10 minutes in, or your framerate would plummet, or things would suddenly be invisible? They’re back! And without an economy of scale to fix them! Not to mention support for OS upgrades – because I find it very unlikely that WoW 1.12 will run on Windows 10 flawlessly!
          – Splitting the playerbase – oh, there’s 2 WoWs now, and half of your old friends kept on the ‘new’ game? Uh-oh, looks like you have to make new friends, with a bunch of people who aren’t sure if they can invest the amount of time you want to and fit your schedule, in a game with a realistic population of one of the ‘WoW killers’ from the past few years.
          – Inconsistent Vanilla – What’s Vanilla to you? Is it 1.0, with all those game breaking bugs and little content? 1.12, meaning you’ll never have an opportunity to open the Gates of Ahn’Quiraj? Is it ‘I say Vanilla, but secretly mean BC because I’ll pine for flying or Wrath because I miss my DK’?
          – Nothing to look forward to – A general assumption is that such a server would be static. Without new patches, an MMO isn’t evergreen and interest drops quickly. Part of what kept you interested in patch 1.X was that you’d be awesome for patch 1.(X+1).

          This is a huge challenge for online video games. Part of what makes playing older games fun is nostalgia, and it’s helpful for the industry to see where it’s been. But the original Pac Man today is nowhere near like it was playing Pac Man in the 80s, and we can’t ask a company to bankrupt themselves. It’s more realistic to ask them to bless private servers as allowable (possibly with some fee), or release old products as open source and/or public domain. Because that, at least, also opens up practical preservation opportunities AND let’s the community decide how much work they actually want to put into saving the old version.

          • Alex Hubbard

            I don’t really have much issue with most of what you said, but frankly if a random crew of 30 or so people could start and run a (relatively) large private server running vanilla wow I would have full confidence that Blizzard could find a way to do it (even if they did as you suggested and just co-op’ed an existing private server) without spending much more than these guys did privately without making any money off the server itself. I will say that Blizzard has already split the WoW community simply by making the game significantly worse (in my opinion anyhow and the millions of others who have quit) over time with the newer expansions. A constant and well developed community doesn’t seem to exist in the Legion version of the game I tried and almost immediately dropped. No talking in parties, no need to party in general for leveling, etc. etc. No one is expecting a vanilla server to alone save a dying MMO, but it might put it on a bit of life support.

            All I was saying before is that this is like roms in as much as game developers don’t have much room to claim that these things are stealing business when the companies themselves don’t offer the product and in that regard the situation is very similar. The vast majority of people who were on Nostalrius were either playing on both that and paying on retail WoW or were simply uninterested in the game in its current form. “It’s more realistic to ask them to bless private servers as allowable (possibly with some fee), or release old products as open source and/or public domain.” This seems perfect to be honest. Unfortunately for Blizzard, without hosting or blessing some form of legitimate vanilla WoW server they will always end up looking like the large corporate bully in scenarios like Nostalrius regardless of them being within their rights to do as they did.

            • itomeshi

              A couple things, though like you said I think we agree on 90% of this:

              Blizzard couldn’t/shouldn’t co-opt an existing private server. From a legal perspective, they could end up on the opposite end of the argument they have with Nostalrius – someone who contributed to Nostalrius (which, like many of the repacks, is a mixture of multiple custom processes and databases) could complain. Most private servers have never, as far as I’ve seen, explicitly declared a software license. (As an engineer who once had to clean up a project from some GPL issues, I know to look for it 😀 ). As such, they aren’t public domain, even if made ‘freely downloadable’. Unless a work is explicitly placed in the public domain OR the copyright expires (which, thanks to Disney, takes decades – way too long), it’s just being ‘released for free use’, etc. Public domain is tricky. 🙁 (Note: it’s entirely possible some are already GPL, but it’s still a tricky proposition; I don’t actively track the private server community.)

              That said, Blizzard could, for example, start an open source project to either 1) clean up / modernize a snapshot of the 1.X server code or 2) build a new 1.X compatible server from various data snapshots.

              (1) is more likely, but has a few snags. The good news is that since Blizzard as a corporate entity, they are likely to have ‘sole ownership’ of the WoW code from that era and wouldn’t need to beg a bunch of devs and ex-devs to sign off on it. (Look up Grim Fandango and No One Lives Forever to see how bad this can get). There are risks to actual, live WoW (such as new bugs being found and exploited – remember that backpack size being fixed is due to a bit of hacky code that is still in the game). More importantly, such a server would likely only be practical for making a Nostalrius, since unlike the repacks, which just ‘act like’ a WoW server, the real code was designed for beefy servers supporting thousands of users and would likely be both expensive and technically tricky to install and run. Try to get people to pay anything close to the WoW monthly fee, and they’ll revolt because ‘it’s an old/dead game’; try to get them to pay much less, and you’ll have a hard time keeping everything running smooth. (So, I suppose that might be a good approximation of parts of the Vanilla experience. :D)

              (2) is equally problematic, because there would be inevitable differences, albeit small ones. More importantly, assuming they were even relatively permissive of allowing contributions that may have come from existing private servers, it’s a huge engineering effort and I would fear large swaths of the community would lose interest before it was playable.

              As a developer (though I don’t build games), I’m split on the whole ‘losing sales’ thing. I agree in that there is a cynical argument that demand has to be ‘pent up’ to the point that the community clamors and promises to vote with their wallets. On the other hand, if the financial model isn’t there, having one or two engineers struggling with a dead-end project doesn’t help either.

              Want to know one of the sadder things? Go buy a copy of Diablo.

              You can’t. A 3rd-party seller on Amazon lists it for $90. Even though it technically does not require a back end server, Blizzard doesn’t sell it or open source it, or even release freeware like their other old games. Why? I’m betting on two things: Diablo is too complex and hacky to make work well on modern systems, and there’s probably a rights issue. Diablo was released in 1996, during the two year period where Blizzard was owned by Davidson & Associates but before CUC bought D&A; as such, Blizzard may have to worry about a court challenge if they try to re-release it. Diablo would take at least a Baldur’s Gate-sized effort, and the existence of D3 (and Blizzard’s frankly amazing D2 updates within the last year) mean that there is far less pent up demand, and most people pirate it.

              Trust me, I’m as annoyed as anyone at paying for the same games over again at full-ish price. $20 for Baldur’s Gate EE, when I paid at least that 10+ years ago for it? That’s a hard pill to swallow. On the other hand, Beamdog did a HELL of a lot of work to make it a good, multiplatform release. How much is that work worth? I don’t know…

              In the end, we’re just not good at managing games. Until hardware and programming skill overall both move way forward – to the point where we can write exceedingly maintainable code and segregated content easily – we’re losing games. Already, we’ve lost a bunch of Xbox games that may not be on top ten lists, but are an important part of the history and somebody’s favorite. Even now, the PS2 library is rotting away slowly, and the PS3 library isn’t doing much better. And when we do ports, we’re still doing ports that aren’t reasonably universal – they just work ‘well enough’ on the current set of APIs, hardware, etc.

              • Alex Hubbard

                Thank you for giving me the perspective of someone with a more technical understanding of some of the things involved. Certainly gives me more things to think on from Blizzard’s perspective. Things like server architecture currently at Blizz isn’t the first thing to come to mind for me. I really hope they do something like you said with making it open source then for the fans to do with as they please. Even if it wouldn’t be exactly like the last patch of vanilla WoW, it would certainly be a nice change of pace and a good bit of nostalgia for people like me who played and loved the game in the beginning.

                To your larger points on saving the history of games in general I would love for there to be some kind of release to public domain (like what is supposed to occur with different kinds of arts in music and movies) so that those who do care enough could openly attempt to save or even update to modern tech the games we grew up with and games that have been very influential to gaming as a whole (and even the ones that are terrible, but important to someone out there :P). I still have my old Diablo copy and had never thought of looking for it, but knowing that saddens me as well.

                As much as I would have loved for Blizzard to leave Nostalrius alone, I can also say that I understand copyright laws enough to know that leaving something that big alone for too long just opens up Blizzard to having to deal with other private servers with less than pure intentions to openly charge people money to play while pointing on Blizzard’s inaction in other servers case’s in their defense.

                Ultimately this is all a big sad mess and one that won’t be fixed anytime soon I imagine. It just bugs me when I see comments about anyone complaining about the whole Nostalrius issue being portrayed as immoral thieves with no regard given to the context of the whole issue.

                One thing I noticed in your other point I’d like to comment on though is that I don’t think the community in general has changed that much. I really do feel like the largest contributor to a lack of community in current WoW is the way it is designed.

        • Operating Thetan

          Except WoW is neither a SNES ROM or an abandonware. It’s an actual product that still exists and is property of Blizzard Entertainment. Even if you think it is harmless, it is not. It hurts Blizzard image and strike confusion on consumer’s mind. Imagine you are a non initiate and you see a streamer play WoW vanilla. The consumer might think “Oh, this is WoW? The graphics look bad!” and not play WoW.

          Imagine I open a McDonalds restaurant and serve people toasts of bread. People might think “McDonalds is bad, I won’t go to one again.” That’s why I can’t call my restaurant “McDonalds” because I could hurt McDonalds image.

          That said, the current version of WoW is garbage. It’s clearly not a good game and I don’t argue with that. But it doesn’t make legal nor morally right to make your own WoW servers.

          “No one is offering a Vanilla WoW experience” ? Too bad, that’s because it doesn’t exist anymore. Old things disapear and new things come out. If you feel like the WoW vanilla experience should exist, spend time and money and make it happen.

          • Alex Hubbard

            “If you feel like the WoW vanilla experience should exist, spend time and money and make it happen.” Nostalrius did and left it free for people to play and we see what that got them. Turns out roms do the same thing for older games that have otherwise disappeared.

            “It’s an actual product that still exists…” Not vanilla WoW, like you said yourself later as the game as it is now is not very good versus at least an enjoyable experience as the game was. The vast majority of people actually looking to play on a vanilla server know what they are getting into. The amount of people who might be turned away seeing a vanilla server of WoW first is negligible at the very best at this point for MMO that has run as long as WoW has. Especially one that is already bleeding subscribers as it is.

            This is very much like roms in a legal and moral sense, freely distributing the hard work of developers and (sometimes) properties of still existing companies is equally as bad as running a private server of a non-existent form of WoW. Just like roms, it is unsurprising that given no legitimate way of playing the game in question that private servers come about. Just like roms, it is generally seen as a bully move for the company that rightfully owns the license of whatever game in question to legally have the game in question removed.

            The poster previous to you even had a potentially good solution of having Blizzard either make the vanilla content open source or working a deal out with a private server to both make money off of their license and provide a legitimate way to play the old game. Until Blizzard does something to give people a way to play the old game, private servers will continue to crop up so long as there is some level of demand for them (as there currently is).

          • itomeshi

            I have a hard time with the argument that current WoW is garbage.

            As someone who has played since early BC and only taken one very short ‘break’, I’ve not seen every drop of Vanilla as it was at the time, but I’ve seen all the old raids multiple times, and I had Loremaster before the Cataclysm revamp. That said, there are so many things that are improved; it’s very hard to argue current WoW is objectively worse from a technical or game design perspective. We can argue that the social scene has degraded, though I would ask how much of that is poor social feature design and how much is that the community has changed. We can argue that current WoW has problems – raid release counts/timing, some value proposition mismatches (garrisons), less spontaneous content (though this has been improving since Pandaria). We can also go through a very long list of Vanilla’s weaknesses, and we can argue about how at least Blizzard has been brave enough to try to improve things and not JUST have a same-y content treadmill.

            We’ve gotten older. We have jobs and kids and other responsibilities now. We have a harder time committing to regular, long game sessions. We are less concerned with beating the hardest content ever and more interested in trying to find some time to do something with our friends who may only be on once in a while. We can’t spend 6 hours farming for 1 raid night, or learn PallyPower just to make sure buffs go out right (which adds ZERO value in actual gameplay).We’re divided in attention with new games, things on phones (which at least we have with us more often), and other hobbies. We’re much less likely to get another accident like Hakkar, and a substantial part of the population still subscribed could miss out on an event like the Wrath undead event.

            No, current WoW isn’t perfect; Vanilla WoW wasn’t either, and sticking the Vanilla WoW code on a server will not be Vanilla WoW – it will be Diet Vanilla WoW, without the same spontaneity and community, and if anything would make people miss current WoW.

            • Penic Munch

              go play kronos and ask the people on it if they miss retail.
              Spoilers: the answer is no. there are problems with classic yeah but id rather deal with shit drop rates than WoD and not even being online.

              • itomeshi

                I really don’t have any desire to torrent an out-of-date client from even their ‘official’ torrent to login to an server that is literally in what would be another battle.net zone to ask people who aren’t on retail WoW why they aren’t on retail WoW. I could lay out a few guesses:

                – Cost of continued subscription when the new content is aesthetically or socially unappealing (a subjective measure, but an odd one)
                – Players who were banned on live for certain destructive behaviors (botting, trolling, etc. – they may be reformed now)
                – Players who are annoyed by an influx of ‘filthy casuals’ and ‘easy loot’
                – Players who are masochistic in roughly the same way Dark Souls players are; they want a level of challenge due to old/broken mechanics and bosses that were generally tuned harder or at least discovered more organically
                – Players who are simply nostalgic and have no desire to actually get back into the game long term, but want to take the ol’ warrior round the block one more time

                I’m really trying to be reasonable on this one, but I’ve never heard a cogent, objective argument that makes Vanilla WoW – or, more importantly, ‘Diet Vanilla WoW’ inherently much better.

                Meanwhile, Kronos is definitely Diet Vanilla WoW – at least, that’s the impression I got from reading the FAQ, and a few of the more detailed threads. Note I did see a few pluses, which are marked as such:
                + It has a better degree of detail in terms of mob spawning and pathing/idle AI scripting than Nostalrius, so that’s good!
                – They have XP boost events. Those are… new.
                – They have no PVE realm. Cool, I can be ganked all the time, and can’t even hide on a PVP realm where us {INSERT FACTION HERE]s have any numerical advantage.
                – They have re-ordered some of the content.
                – They allow feature voting and give you cross-faction mounts, etc. if you donate. Cool, so it’s not pay to win (like some in the threads are), but it’s pay to make it more like the Vanilla you wanted to exist.
                – They don’t have any plan I saw to move to even BC. Say what you want about later expansions, but BC both fixed a lot of major design issues and brought in some of the more iconic elements to the game, and the lack of a ‘something next’ makes the final end grind less meaningful. I see they have Ares, Hyperion, etc. – but, can you copy characters forward?
                + They do have a collection of addons for the old client. It was good to see they have a copy of PallyPower. That said, I’d be slightly curious to find out how many of the addons work, and how many changes had to be made to try to get them working on that specific client version and server (meaning they couldn’t be taken to another Vanilla server). But that’s just the developer in me talking.
                + They have name changes – which some people see as a bad thing?

                Even given the weird state of these servers, I don’t consider the desire to play on them negative – only the arguments that ‘Kronos/Nost/etc. should be allowed’ (that’s not how defending copyright and corporate reputation works), ‘Blizzard can do it easily’ (they can’t) and ‘Modern WoW is Garbage but I can’t tell you why’ (it’s not perfect, it’s slid backwards in a few ways, but it’s way better in others). I worry that many people think that if Blizzard brought online a set of Vanilla servers, it would be the same… and it’s not going to be. That ship has sailed. Things are different outside of the client and server code.

      • Mshake1

        Even the Nost team does not like having to do it.. They want blizzard to do it themselves, and we all would pay for it. But they won’t so we have to take measures to play a game that A lot of current players prefer. I have my 100’s on Retail, and will probably buy that garbage Legion, and yet I will still try to find vanilla servers so I can play a game that does not hold my hand at every turn. Is it wrong? From a legal standpoint yes it is. From the standpoint of a consumer who just wants such an easy product to make that I am willing to pay for No It is not wrong. They have the money, and manpower to do it, they just choose not to. They would rather make the game more idiot friendly. People like you are just stuck on how it is “taking something that doesn’t belong to you” Without listening to what we have to say. Keep reading more, or hey even try vanilla out. Maybe you will understand. Again I am willing to pay for this product, it is just not an option to buy it.

      • korval

        > just profits to a bunch of nostalgic neckbeards

        Nostalrius was a non-profit server. I was a member of a ISVV Bug Testing team. I didn’t make a dime. Same for everyone else on the team. Nobody made a dime from it. It was volunteer work purely out of love for vanilla WOW and the community.

        Before you speak you really should get all the facts.

      • Evony Master

        Blizzard no longer DESERVES the license with how bad they ruined the franchise. Legally they own it, morally the entire dev team needs to be canned and replaced with competent people who know the meaning of the word “fun.” Or they need to step aside so somebody can fix this farmville trainwreck they turned it into.

      • fanboy

        Yet gaming companies today sell you a half finished product then re-sell the rest to you later is that ok also? Ya don’t respond please that’s a rhetorical question for people who don’t use their brain, you know like you.

    • Critic4U

      Coincidence that shortly after the private server went down so did all of blizzards for hours it was angry then laughed about it then watched a movie that how much I cared, however I do believe that they should have some kind of server structure available even with 110k that’s almost a couple million for something that was being run privately, probably on some dudes server tower. I personally think blizzard should make it available otherwise their just freaking dumbasses…

    • Gankfest

      If Blizzard created Legacy servers, I would take 3 months off vacation, and never leave my room. -_-

    • ShadowFalls

      I wonder how die hard people would be? Would you pay $5 a month for this? If you say yes, Blizzard could let them run it, collect the subscription and they go 50/50 on it. This way Blizzard gets money for its license without having to operate the server themselves. The only ones who do not win here is those who want it for free. Honestly if Blizzard did it themselves as the many who asked for it, it would have never become as popular as it did.

    • Jack Pott

      I haven’t play WoW in years so this would be something I would do and would pay a small amount for the service.

    • Paul Lemoine

      Regardless how people sign petitions an no matter how many times people beg Blizzard for a vanilla server. Blizzard will never do it, because in their eyes it would be admitting defeat some how. Blizzard would rather let WoW die then ever admit they messed up with the current version of WoW.

      • http://raptr.com/Minttunator/about Minttunator

        This is a valid point – opening Vanilla servers would be seen (at least by some) as a tacit admission from Blizzard that the game they put out 10 years ago was better than the current one that they’ve been working on for all this time. Whether or not that’s really true isn’t actually all that relevant.

        The same thought process has been seen from Square Enix who (until recently) were adamant that they weren’t going to remake FF7 until they’ve made a better Final Fantasy game than FF7. They recently caved, though, and I don’t know the exact reason – they haven’t made a better Final Fantasy game but maybe they just decided they don’t hate money any longer? Regardless, this gives one hope that Blizz might also reverse their stance eventually but I wouldn’t expect it to happen any time soon.

    • Zohar

      You must also consider people who pay sub fees with Gold like myself, will continue playing the new xpacs and what not to keep paying the sub fees with Gold

      • Paul Lemoine

        Blizzard is still making money from the WoW tokens. Even if you yourself aren’t playing the money anymore to Blizzard someone else had to buy the WoW token an post it on the AH. So Blizzard still making the same about money regardless weather you play with real cash or in game currency.

    • FiachSidhe

      Simply put there were enough people who played on that private server, to scare Blizzard and Activision into taking legal action while ignoring so many others. That in and of itself is more than enough proof that the desire for these types of servers is real. And the way Kern talks about Mike Morhaime you’d think the guy was some out of touch ruler alone in a high tower somewhere completely unaware of his kingdom. Morhaime doesn’t give a shit.