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Star Citizen won’t fulfill its stretch goals for release

Star Citizen won’t fulfill its stretch goals for release

The latest Star Citizen Ten for the Chairman episode has just been released and it contains comments from CEO Chris Roberts that might not please everybody.

In the video Chris Roberts states that CIG won’t be adding all the later stretch goals into the game’s final commercial release despite having raised in excess of 112 million. Stretch goals were set up to $65 million before CIG decided to stop offering further funding goals.

To put the statement in context, This is the full transcript and the video is below.

Star Citizen is never going to be finished, I don’t think people say EVE or World of Warcraft are finished. Star Citizen will go on, that universe will go on as long as anyone is wanting to play it which I am hoping will be for a long time. Obviously, the games I have mentioned have been ten years plus. What we are doing with Star Citizen is we are working on the game adding features, it’s incredibly ambitious, I don’t think there is any other game doing as much as we’re trying to do. Degree of difficulty 11, not 10.

“We’ll have what we determine as a minimal viable product feature list for what you would call Star Citizen the commercial release, which is basically when you say OK, we’ve got to this point and we still have plans to add a lot more cool stuff, and more content, and more functionality, and more features, which by the way includes some of the later stretch goals which we have because not all of that will be right here fo the commercial release. But we’ll have something where we think, ‘Yeh, now everyone can play it, it doesn’t matter, you can load it up, it plays really well, it’s really stable, there’s lots of content, there’s lots of fun things to do, different professions, places to go’.

“When we get to that point that’s when we’ll say it’s not alpha or beta it is Star Citizen 1.0. Of course, the team is going to continue working on it. If you look at WoW, they continue to add content and features all the time. We’ll continually update the graphics, we’ll add new functionality, new content, new systems, coMing across additional alien races. We’re going to work on this as long as you guys let us do.

“The world is huge, there; so many things to do, same with Squadron 42. Once we’ve told the Squadron 42 trilogy we’ll move on and have other stories to tell, not necessarily a military story, maybe it’s an adventure, a sort of Han Solo style adventure. It’s a huge universe. Look what Disney’s doing with Star Wars. They’ve got a whole roadmap of the main ones, spin-off ones, and all the rest of the stuff. So I think Star Citizen has the possibility of a huge interesting universe, we’ve really put a lot of effort into the lore from the very beginning.

“We want to make this world as livable and breathable, and you guys spend many years adventuring around in it and I think in today’s world it’s not like it used to be where you say here’s a game, you put it on the shelf and then you come back to another game a year or two years later then iterate it. With us we’re just live and continually adding and improving it. It’s kind of like we’re doing right now but with more features, more content, better stability, better performance under out belts and then we’ll say, yep, ready for the full general public”

We’ve been concerned about feature-creep with Star Citizen for a couple of years now, and while it’s normal for an MMO to release new content, the comments in the video are very sketchy. The project is ambitious and that appears to be the problem and why visible progress has been slow. Will it ever come out? Possibly. Will the initial release contain most of the expected features? It’s not sounding like it. This could be a very, very long project so let’s hope that CIG

Some of the later stretch goals are not exactly important such as pets but there are goals such as ship modularity, the Genesis Starliner which has already been up for sale as a concept ship, and “more detailed AI activities”. There’s a lot of features that may not appear for some time after a commercial release. Anyone who’s been following development closely will be under no illusion that many features won’t make it in for release but it’s still concerning.

The project is ambitious and that appears to be the problem and why visible progress has been slow. Will it ever come out? Possibly. Will the initial release contain most of the expected features? It’s not sounding like it. This could be a very, very long project so let’s hope that CIG manages to keep afloat long enough to see this through.

 

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Comments

  • qlib

    Those who are interested, here is a schedule of community content for this week:

    Monday, April 18th
    – [1500 PDT / 2200 UTC] 10 for the Chairman: Episode 83 – youtube: RobertsSpaceInd

    Tuesday, April 19th
    – Vault Update
    – Lore Post

    Wednesday, April 20th
    – [1500 PDT / 2200 UTC] Bugsmashers!: Episode 23 – youtube: RobertsSpaceInd
    – Jump Point Rerun

    Thursday, April 21st
    – [1200 PDT / 1900 UTC] Around the Verse: Episode 2.28 – youtube: RobertsSpaceInd

    Friday, April 22nd
    – [1100 PDT / 1800 UTC] Reverse the Verse: The Community Team’s Weekly Livestream – twitch: cigcommunity
    – MISC Prospector Concept Sale

  • qlib

    Crowdfunded projects are always subject to change during development or have huge changes to plans in last moment, like Elite: Dangerous. I don’t think stretch goals has to be done before the actual release but it has always been a bit grey area in crowdfunded games. People who are not ready to lose their money should wait the actual release and check the projects status before buying it.

    >>> “The project is ambitious and that appears to be the problem and why visible progress has been slow.”

    This is one opinion, but personally I think visible progress has been normal or even fast although sometimes it requires to know actual changes to realize them – does that count as ‘visible’.
    It takes years to make even simple games that are build on ready made game. Makes me wonder if progress of Star Citizen PU has been slow DOOM and Dark Souls 3 should have been max 6 month projects.

    • Ainar

      And does a leak count as ‘visible’? Because that asset one courtesy of Lando showed HUGE progress 🙂

    • Cloverfield

      Hi qlib!

      The difference with those games you quote is that they are released, functioning and successful. Games like Space Engineers, Elite Dangerous, and most likely the soon to be released No Man´s Sky. Even I-Novae Battlescape will be released and playable before Star Citizen final PU.

      Whereas SC after 4-5 years has basically no content whatsoever and whatever is out there is buggy, glitchy, crashy and has got many delays and cancellations.

      • Ainar

        Well this sounds familiar…wait, Tufao, is that you? 🙂

      • qlib

        Hello Cloverfield!

        Dark souls 3 is a fine game but more I play it more I regret I payed full price. The game is so similar to two earlier Dark Souls games that it feels more like a extension than a new game. DS3 has its bugs, glitches and crashes as well, but they doesn’t bother me too much.Still, hopefully they will be fixed soon.

        According to Elite: Dangerous community the game is far from finished or ready. I really hope they are right and Elite: Dangerous would get many more Seasons. I’m not huge fan of grinding or PvP so I stop playing the game some time ago. Once it will get EVA and FPS I will return to play it again (2017?). What comes to space game with trading and mining (and imperium building) I prefer X-series over Elite. Egosoft is working on next X-game and I hope they have still kept PC as their main platform.

        One aspect I like about MMO games is that they are not finished on first release but keep evolving over time. Egosoft and Paradox Development Studio are kinda doing that which I like a lot. Their games keep getting better for years and doesn’t die immediately after release.

        No Man’s Sky looks way too arcade for my taste. What I have seen about it so far has not convinced me yet. It doesn’t seem to have anything that makes me excited and interested in Star Citizen. I will give it a try of course but I don’t have very high expectations about it.

        Star Citizen is to me easily most excited and interesting PC game at the moment. Finally an ambitious PC game which pushes boundaries and limits forward. I think Alpha version is very impressive already and it is interesting to see what they have for Alpha 2.4

      • Dragon75

        I guess you don’t understand the concept of Alpha, work in progress then and how development actually works then.
        The game is currently in Alpha, which means the game is nowhere near commercial release and by definition is buggy, glitch can crashy as you say and have few features.

        Regarding delays, can you name one single game that never had any delay at any point of its development?

        Regarding cancellations, can you elaborate on what has been cancelled?
        Because I have never heard about any cancellations.

        As for development time big AAA titles take on average 5-6 years to develop, and the is with already established studios.
        Development didn’t start until their original crowdfunging and kickstarter campaigns ended in November 2012, that’s just under 3.5 years, and most of the first year of SC development actually went into building the company/studios.

        9 women cant make a baby in 1 month, throwing more money/programmers at the project will eventually be harmful and slow things down.

        As for the game being incomplete, can you say that WOW is complete, or EVE?
        Not in commercial release =/= never released or incomplete.

        • Ainar

          Regarding things getting cancelled, his access did:) I’m pretty sure he’s Tufao/jcrg99/Manzes/ponymillar, the guy who got thrown off the community with a bang for being abusive to the CIG staff and has been badmouthing them ever since. I may be wrong but he sounds awfully similar in terms of arguments used and odd English here and there.

          • Dragon75

            Would not surprise me.
            That guy like that other guy who shall not be named(the one claiming to be a developer), are of the attention seeking kind of individual.
            It would frankly not surprise me f ithis is just some way of trying to get attention.

      • MrPanicy

        Anyone that has been around since the Kickstarter days knew that not all features would be around for the full launch. It was stated November 2012.

        As for the length of time. Star Citizen Kickstarter ended later 2012. They staffed up, while working on the game, over the next 1.5 years. Lot’s of work happened, but the real work only began after they had staffed ~5 different studios. So really, after onboarding, developing best practices and workflow, the games development started to kick off at the end of 2013 – mid 2014. And even that work is essentially backend on the game engine.

        Having streamlined and developed a great workflow they are now pushing out “public content” much quicker. Getting things into backer hands to test. Since it’s Alpha. Even taking into account staffing time this game is only 4 years into development. And they are close to releasing a fully functioning single player game.

        Most AAA games aren’t revealed to the public up to this point, let alone close to releasing anything playable. But we have been playing with various parts of the game for a long while now.

        I just don’t understand why people are so desperate for Star Citizen to fail. So desperate that they ignore the facts and commit slander.

        • corners

          “I just don’t understand why people are so desperate for Star Citizen to fail.”

          I don’t think they want it to fail. The people running are just showing signs that other con artists have.

          Cant you realize they are making big bucks just sitting on that cash, pushing deadlines back?

          • Liam Kelly

            Sitting on the cash? You mean it didn’t cost them anything to start up 5 studios and hire a staff of over 300?

            I mean seriously I know I am responding to something from months ago, but your comment shows a irrational bias. Sitting on the money… SMH.

          • Pierre Tremblay

            They probably have half the staff working on countering argument on youtube and other forum so that why they show almost no progress! One thing is certain is that they don’t have talented artists and writer since animations are atrocious and the story if we can call it a story is a star wars and Dunes ripoff. I am an indie developer and with that amount of money and staff i would have produce 2 complete RPG by now. Just look what the content produce so far is and you can clearly see a bunch of amateurs there. Choosing the cryengine was also a sure sign they didn’t have a clue about modern game engine.
            I don’t want the project to fail but it has all the ingredients of an EPIC failure in the making! With 360 employees the money will get out a lot faster than it come in so expect massive lay off in one year from here.

    • aunty

      ED cost at least £8m to make – of that only £1.8 was crowdfunding. And guess what, it’s a living, breathing game.

      Can I ask how you think CIG are going to be able to pay to put those stretch goals in when you consider that the majority of people who will ever play the game have already paid for it? The ONLY way they will be able to do is is by having the very same people who have already contributed massively to the project to either pay for a monthly subscription OR pay for the DLC which will give them the “stretch goals” they paid for anyway.

      It’s a disgrace.

      • Dignity

        A game that gives you so many options of how to play should be a monthly sub. Star Citizen should go Monthly since it provides more then any game has already. I mean they had us playing the game 2 years before the actual release or longer, no other game has done that and gave so much information out like they did making an actual news broadcast weekly.

      • Bobby

        Go find out how many years the game that would BECOME Ed was in development before heaven took it over and slapped a name on it.

        • aunty

          I know how long it was in development. What has that got to do with anything? Do you think Star Citizen sprung forth from nothing in 2012?

          • Ainar

            Actually, close to nothing. In 2012 all they had was a demo Chris made with his own money and CryEngine. They ended up having to dismantle the demo completely in 2013 and build the game almost from scratch, rewriting large portions of the CryEngine in the process. So yes, E:D did have a big head start, not to mention it was already partially financed prior to Kickstarter.

            To answer your earlier question, they’re going to realize those stretch goals with the money they gathered on them. That’s generally how stretch goals work.

      • Star commando

        Look at how much GTA 5 costed to make and how long, SC is right on track and it is a far more ambitious game starting from Scratch

        • aunty

          The difference is GTA5 was paid for with company money so the risk was on the business should it of been a failure (which to be fair it was never going to be with Rockstar’s past history.

          SC is a completely different beast. It is being funded by the public & there is no risk to CIG. You also don’t know exactly what you are going to get when it is eventually released either. SC really is the most ambitious game ever, but that ambition HAS to translate into actual gameplay because ideas in someones head does not a game make 🙂

          Hope it works out though!

          • Ainar

            Firstly, ‘should it HAVE been’ is the correct form, don’t butcher your own language.

            Secondly, are you mad? No risk to CIG? If this fails there are going to be 300 developers looking for a job and Chris will get stygmatized for life. The worst Rockstar was facing were some lay offs for non-essential staff and working on the next game sooner and harder.

            If you don’t know by now what exactly SC is going to be than you must have actively been shutting away information about it.

            • DreamStain

              Everything is okay but: -I’m not trying to be ”that” guy- how would you know if English is her/his own language? As I get it, you are trying to be ”grammar correction guy” here by saying ”butcher your own language.” Please do correct this comment too, but imagine that the subject language could be my third.

      • Northomahakid

        Elite is far from complete. The developers have outlined a 10 year plan for seasonal content. The first expansion has costed existing players 75% of the base game. The average Star Citizen pledge isn’t close to what an Elite player will put down for the COMPLETE “living, breathing game” in the long run, paying 75% for drip fed annual ‘features’ like EVA, Planetary Landings etc….things SC are offering in alpha.

        Not trolling, just simply illustrating why you can’t even hope to compare where SC will be at launch to what Elite (season one) was at launch. Both games are still being worked on, bot will require millions to complete.

        And, be honest….that first season of Elite is a handful of well executed ideas at best.

  • Rainbow Fart

    Not only is it never going to be finished, it’s also never going to come out.

    • nopecat

      StarCitizen, i agree. Squadron 42 we most likely see next year. They need that to get more money.

      • Rainbow Fart

        I just hope it turns out to be good I’ve been jonesing for a good space game, but it’s probably just gonna be 3 hours of cutscenes and then 2 space pewpew mission and a bad FPS level.

        Episode 1 of SQ42 preorder now only 45$, no you can’t use your 800$ ship in this.

        • Ainar

          Well the video they released some time ago with the first 10min of the campaign looked promising but the tutorial released later was super annoying so we’ll just have to wait and see if their mission building is as good as their ship building.

      • sumd00d

        Everybody interested in a janky space dogfight game with 10+ hours of horribly written (search for the script leak) and directed (wing commander movie) cut scenes has already bought the game.

  • Ainar

    Um, they already said that like 3 years ago, I remember because it was around the time I backed…

    • Cloverfield

      Quote those sources please? Not that I do not agree on the game released incomplete. That is a given.

      But I am just curious about where did CIG mentioned that would be the case for the first time other than Ben´s latest announcement that not all the ships would be in and now this 104TC.

      • Ainar

        From the AMA 2012/11/01:

        “CommanderRobertsChris Roberts[S] 19 points 3 years ago

        The
        difference between this and Fable is that it is intended as an online
        continually updated and developed game, rather than a fixed amount of
        functionality and content that will go onto a disc. So all the features
        may not make it for day 1 but we will bringing on as much and as many
        as we can over the life of the universe.

        There will be some features that will not make it as I’m sure some of
        my ideas wont work out once we start testing them with real users, and
        there will be some I haven’t talked about will be in the game that
        everyone will wonder how we could have ever conceived not having.
        (..)”

        It may have been the first instance but it was definitely stated numerous times in later years and explained in great detail. Usually in Wingman’s Hangar in reply to someone asking about the final release or stretch goals.

        • Cloverfield

          You realize that Chris Roberts there is responding about issues limiting certain content at all (“will not make it”) and not simply about alleged incomplete release as he is stating in this 104TC?

          There is a difference between stating that you may need to cancel altogether a certain feature due to technical or gameplay considerations that make a feature not work at all (his answer in the AMA) and simply saying that the release version will be incomplete with some content coming later (104TC).

          The former (AMA) acknowledges potential cancellations due to limitations. The latter, i.e. incomplete release (with some content coming later maybe) was never stated as a possibility by Chris Roberts in that AMA.

          • Ainar

            “So all the features may not make it for day 1 but we will bringing on as much and as many as we can over the life of the universe.”

            Please work on your reading comprehension.

            What’s more, Chris always stated that there will not be such a thing as a ‘complete’ release for SC. What lands on the disk will simply be the first version worth the trouble. Nobody ever promised that all stretch goals will be in that version. In fact some were specifically stated as long term engagements with no prediction of when they can be realized (e.g. procedural environments).

            • Cloverfield

              I think you need to work on your whole response and question comprehension as opposed to just cherry pick a line that suits your narrative?

              You conveniently forgot to quote the start of the answer for completeness:

              “There will be some features that will not make it as I’m sure some of my ideas wont work out once we start testing them with real users”

              The answer is focused solely on technical and gameplay limitations. Not in possible incomplete delays leaving things for later.

              What CR has stated in the 104TC now is very different than the answer in that AMA.

            • dolkensp

              Nice response @disqus_kmH3M5Twyz:disqus.

              @disqus_1pQXjzpsYM:disqus:

          • Bobby

            You ate a moron tufao

        • Hyco

          That quote was back when Star Citizen had raised $7million. Does that quote mean that Chris Roberts and company simply created the stretch goals to generate hype and separate backers from their cash? Seems mighty sketchy to create 80+ stretch goals when the intention was never to include them in the game?

          And what about this quote from July 2015?

          “You all know that already; you’ve lived that. You’ve seen Star Citizen evolve and start to come together. You’ve watched our atoms form molecules, our modules form a real, playable game (that you can boot up and play today!). There are people out there who are going to tell you that this is all a BAD THING. That it’s ‘feature creep’ and we should make a smaller, less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly or in order to meet artificial deadlines. Now I’ll answer those claims in one word: Bullshit!

          Star Citizen matters BECAUSE it is big, because it is a bold dream. It is something everyone else is scared to try. You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before. You’re here and reading this because we are willing to go big, to do the things that terrify publishers. You’ve trusted us with your money so we can build a game, not line our pockets. And we sure as hell didn’t run this campaign so we could put that money in the bank, guarantee ourselves a profit and turn out some flimsy replica of a game I’ve made before. You went all in supporting us and we’ve gone all in making the game. Is Star Citizen today a bigger goal than I imagined in 2012? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not: it’s the whole damn point.“

          • Ainar

            Do I really have to paste the same thing for the third time for you to actually read it?

            Stretch goals were added to allow backers to broaden the scope of the project so we can have a better game. They were not intended to all be realized on day 1 but that doesn’t matter they’re not coming at all. Having lots of money doesn’t materialize stuff out of thin air in an instant. It’s like saying, I’m giving you a bajillion dollars to build a skyscraper so I expect it in 5min.

            Also, that quote is from when they had below $4m.

            • Hyco

              Oh–I gotcha! So kind of like Star Marine module. You know, the FPS module that was hyped for a year and released to backers in April 2015. **checking notes** Oh wait, it was delayed for a few weeks, not months or years. So, not getting it in April, but backers will have it by September 2015. **hold the phone** So it didn’t come in September. Well it is the end of April 2016, so certainly backers have the Star Marine module by now! No? But Cloud Imperium Games was providing weekly updates were they talked about play testing across offices, using their proprietary GIM (game information manager) system.

              So where is Star Marine. Oh now I remember, the CEO of the company let the backers know that he was getting annoyed with the backers for expecting a stand alone module. The module was no longer needed… What?! Cloud Imperium Games had been doing dog and pony shows hyping the module like it was going to be the best thing about the game since CitizenCon 2014 and then poof, now Star Marine is vaporware.

              Here is a later quote from Chris Roberts. This one from July 2015:
              “You all know that already; you’ve lived that. You’ve seen Star Citizen evolve and start to come together. You’ve watched our atoms form molecules, our modules form a real, playable game (that you can boot up and play today!). There are people out there who are going to tell you that this is all a BAD THING. That it’s ‘feature creep’ and we should make a smaller, less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly or in order to meet artificial deadlines. Now I’ll answer those claims in one word: Bullshit!

              Star Citizen matters BECAUSE it is big, because it is a bold dream. It is something everyone else is scared to try. You didn’t back Star Citizen because you want what you’ve seen before. You’re here and reading this because we are willing to go big, to do the things that terrify publishers. You’ve trusted us with your money so we can build a game, not line our pockets. And we sure as hell didn’t run this campaign so we could put that money in the bank, guarantee ourselves a profit and turn out some flimsy replica of a game I’ve made before. You went all in supporting us and we’ve gone all in making the game. Is Star Citizen today a bigger goal than I imagined in 2012? Absolutely. Is that a bad thing? Absolutely not: it’s the whole damn point.”

              If only the rhetoric from Chris Roberts matched the development ability of Cloud Imperium Games.

            • Ainar

              Oh, good, that again…

              Star Marine was not even a stretch goal, they just thought that since Arena Commander worked well for them they might as well test the FPS gameplay in a similar fashion. What they didn’t realize was that it would require a lot of work to provide meaningful and balanced fun and that they will need the FPS mechanic implemented sooner than a separate module for it can be completed. It’s also quite possible that Illfonic wasn’t doing a very good job considering they cut them off fairly quickly.

              We already can shoot each other in the PU Alpha and making the entire studio work on a module that was basically an afterthought anyway would take focus from Squadron 42. They’re probably still working on it as what it was supposed to contain was going to be in the game one way or another. As to where the module/mini game is going to be available, who cares? I want SQ42 and full PU live, not some arena game that I’ll get bored with in a month.

            • Hyco

              That is some awesome revisionist history!! CIG hyped Star Marine for a year plus. CIG put on a dog and pony show at every gaming convention they could. Might not have been a “stretch goal”, but it sure was an integral part of the road map. When the gaming sites ran a story about Star Marine being canceled three months after Star Marine was set to be released, CIG doubled down and told everyone it wasn’t canceled and proceeded to give the backers weekly updates on the progress.

              And then poof. We learn Star Marine really was canceled. And here is why that matters. Star Marine was the FPS portion of the game. The game uses the CryEngine, an FPS engine. If getting the FPS portion of the game working in an FPS engine was too difficult for the developers at CIG–do you really think they are up to the task of finishing the vision? As Chris Roberts recently said, this project is an 11 out of 10 difficulty, something probably only the GTA5 developers, oh and the CIG developers, could make a reality.

              Sorry, but a bunch of recent community college coders, which is what CIG has on staff for the most part, are not even in the same league as the Rockstar developers.

              But rather than go back and forth. We can agreed to disagree. But, CIG needs money to continue the effort. Since you are sure the project will succeed, I recommend you go buy two $340 ships. Someone needs to prop up CIG and it won’t be me.

            • Ainar

              Wth are you talking about?

              Star Marine was not the FPS portion of the game, it was an FPS equivalent of Arena Commander.

              What they couldn’t do was making the gameplay fun in an arena style match with the mechanic they decided on before they need the mechanic and resources working on it in the PU/SQ42. It was only cancelled in the sense that we won’t be seeing it as a separate module before the v1.0.

              The FPS side of the game is already there, working, if you don’t believe go check it out, it’s free until 25/04.

              Yes, it was on a roadmap, well I hate to break it to you but project
              roadmaps change. They didn’t exactly hype it either. If you look
              through the articles and interviews Chris explains it pretty much how I did here. People just overreacted and ‘journos’ blew the story out of proportion fixating on words they misunderstood (like when Chris said it would be ‘more deadly than CoD’).

              Also, CIG does not need more money to continue the effort. They’ve already got all they need to finish the game. Unless you believe in the antics of The One Who Shall Not Be Named (But Is Not That Smart) in which case I really can’t help you.

              I’m not sure if the project will succeed, I would certainly like that but I can’t be sure. I’m just correcting misinformation so it doesn’t spread.

            • Hyco

              Hmmm… Let me post a link: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14697-Star-Marine-FPS-Update

              Please read what Star Marine as pitched by Cloud Imperium Games was supposed to be. Yes there is FPS in the tech demo, pre-alpha, alpha, “game” (so hard to know what to call it! You say CIG has done nothing and the white knights talk about the game being available now. You talk about how broken everything is and it goes from a game to “It’s pre-alpha”.) But what FPS gameplay is available is nothing like what CIG told us they were going to deliver in “just a few weeks.”

              To say that CIG didn’t hype Star Marine is so far off base. Either you have not paid attention to any of their presentations in 2015 or you are purposely obfuscating.

              The bottom line. After seeing what CIG intended Star Marine to be and comparing it to what was actually delivered. I am not impressed. In fact just the opposite. you can invent all the rationalisations that you want, but the bottom line is CIG did not deliver what they said they would deliver. More troubling, CIG is using an existing game engine, that was supposed to speed development. However, it appears CIG does not have the talent required to effectively utilize the engine.

              The only thing CIG has been able to do. Create ship models and sell those models. It is a shame CIG didn’t create a game for those ship models. CIG might not be able to deliver any type of enjoyable game. But one thing is for sure. CIG has NEVER missed a ship sale date. Heck, CIG is successfully running TWO ships sales right now! Woot! Let us spend more than an Xbox or PS/4 costs on a ship that can’t be used.

            • qlib

              “The bottom line. After seeing what CIG intended Star Marine to be and comparing it to what was actually delivered. I am not impressed.”

              So where and when have you played Star Marine?
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOyEcb5jJfE&t=23m0s

              To me FPS in PU is much more impressive than what Star Marine (or other arena shooters) can deliver; enormous area, zero-g, local/external physics, etc.

              It has been quite interesting to see how hard it is for many to deal with open development. No matter what CIG does lots of users are whining about the decisions and gaming websites writing clickbait articles. Priorities changes, plans changes, etc. normal in software development.

            • Hyco

              76-
              Click bait? The articles talking about Star Marine being canceled

              *

              -/onths

            • Ainar

              SMH, just read this: https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/315826/ (it’s a short thread).

            • qlib

              Star Marine is not cancelled but the release got postponed. When enormous projects like Star Citizen are done this openly we can see all kind of changes; plans, schedules, priorities, etc. That’s all normal in software development. This kind of openness is very new in gaming business and as we can see it clearly causes lots of trouble to deal with not only for gamers but to media as well. Unfortunately it is good source for clickbait articles and drama for those who wants to harm the project.

              Star Marine is not a separate game itself but a training ground. The thing is that SM is size of arena shooter game by itself. FPS is in PU is much more than just arena shooter when all other aspects of the game is involved; EVA, local/external physics, zero-g, etc.
              Star Citizen is a huge project.

              I don’t see any problem with showing the progress – I would like to see how games like TES VI, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided and others looks at the moment. I’m sure teams behind those projects are proud what they have done and would be excited to show the progress if they could.

              No, I don’t work for CIG but I would definitely like to! Hmmh, actually they are hiring …

            • Ainar

              Actually, there have been a number of mishaps with the ship sales, including delays 🙂

              It seems to me that I’m not the one rationalising here, you clearly misunderstood what the intent was behind Star Marine and how that changed and are now placing the blame on CIG.

              In the post you link Chris explains what Star Marine is in the first paragraph. Then he goes on about what he intends for Star Citizen as a whole to put that in perspective. That goal is still there but a different path has been chosen.

              Right now you’re mainly just complaining that the game isn’t finished yet.

              Also, how is presenting your progress on something ‘hyping it’? Again, you’re placing blame on others for getting overexcited on your own accord. This is the problem with this sort of open development, people just don’t get it, they see something and immediately make a dozen assumptions based on what they think should happen.

            • Hyco

              There sure have been a few delays with the ship sales. Do you recall the longest delay? Was it 24 or 48 hours?

              If I clearly misunderstand what Star Marine was it is because I am not a shill, I am a gamer. Find the PAX demo from August. The one where Roberts shows off yet another Star Marine video and tells the audience they will be playing it by the end of September. This is after being told in July that the module would be out in weeks, not months or years.

              I am not complaining about the game being not finished. I’m cautioning anyone that hasn’t put money into the project to stay far, far away. The team creating Star Citizen has proven time and time again they are not capable of delivering what they say they will deliver.

              You want to know what open development looks like? Go back Descent Underground. The developers creating Descent Underground are mainly ex-CIG employees from Austin. Not only is the project open and forthcoming with the successes and failures–they do what they say they are going to do. It is very refreshing after watching CIG and Star Citizen implode.

            • Jason Miller

              Yes… They are umm… doing great things!… https://youtu.be/VMmDxCCXYVk
              impressive. SC is _so_ screwed.

      • Domaldel

        They’ve been saying this multiple times over the years, so, nope, not news…
        Only change is that they haven’t stressed it recently so some people are either too new to know or have simply forgotten…
        Now granted the huge amount of information released about the game all the time means that there’s probably no single person on earth, Roberts included that knows *everything*.
        So you pretty much have to talk with several different people, backers or people in CIG to get information about things.
        Since some may have caught some piece of news while others know other things.
        Some bits and pieces are found in the forums, some in reverse the verse, some in one of the many other shows they have, some on the chat, some in interviews and so one and so forth…
        This has been mentioned several times but despite having seen it multiple times it will still take me hours if I’m to try to dig out those sources myself…

  • Cloverfield

    Paul, it seems your 3rd paragraph to last got cut.

    Agree with the whole thing though.

  • Avery Smallcube

    “minimum viable product”
    *goes on to talk about motion capturing animals*

    • Ainar

      The fact that not everything is going to be in v1.0 does not mean they’re not already working on it. Nor does it say anything about how long we would need to wait for that.

      People get hung up on that first release like it’s the 90s and what you get on the disk is pretty much it. Even single player games get lots of post release updates these days. I’m not saying it’s a good trend but sheesh, get over it already 🙂

      • Avery Smallcube

        how much you in for, comando? i’m making a chart

        • Ainar

          That’s double ‘m’ for you, rambo. And I’m in for just a few bucks and all my faith in game dev as something more than a spineless manufacture.

  • Oh yes, the game is a bit over-ambitious and yes, everyone investing more than $100 in that game is a bit crazy and understandably might get a bit nervous hearing such comments…it also seems that this game development could have been managed a bit more efficient…

    But: Can’t we have just one day when no-one fundamentally questions if this game will ever (???) come out and get all scared (!!!) by the egocentric agitator and attention-freeloader “Derek (everything but) Smart”. Together with frustrated game-kiddies who pedanticly believe in stretch-goals like St. Claus or the Easter Bunny and other doomsayers we have to hear now every day that this is all “fraud” and “impossible”. Yes Mr. Younger – it is alright to warn your audience to switch on their brains to not dissapoint themselves and waste all their pocket-meoney in to this game. Everyone else with a rational thinking understands that their goals were…
    – maybe too ambitious
    – that CR is good in infecting others with his vision but should be more clear on things
    and not always promise to much details
    – work on the technical basis took some extra time to enable all the ideas later and therefore is the priority right now
    – they release daily updates and that this game entertains you continuously with all the stuff around it (demo, stories, concepts, interviews) long before “the actual release(tm)”
    – that based on a sound technical basis “serving candies” later will be a lot of easier for them
    – that this is not a game for 2 month playing commitment, but for years

    I still believe they will succeed in something which is far ahead of others in terms of details and immersion. And yes, it will definitely take more than a year still. Releasing SQ42 earlier as a first release with additional chapters & content following later makes a lot of sense as well. They need a constant inflow of money to continuously develop the game, so better do that as soon as the game is ready for a single AAA game package instead of waiting for the sudden end of cash inflow in maybe 1-2 years.

    Who cares if all the stretchgoals are in this 1st package or in the 2nd? I haven’t invested in any starter pack yet (but plan soon) and enjoy watching this gem-stone evolve for month now. It needs the right attitude to understand that this kind of undertaking and no grouching kids on the rear seats asking every 5 minutes “when we arrive”. Mr. Younger, I find it very OK to explain all that to your readers but somehow I get the impression there are people out there, digging daily in every SC related statements to cry “I have the proof – this game is fraud and will never make it”.

    I was also first doubtful about the concerns mentioned by Derek Smart, but reading more of his stuff makes it quickly obvious: This guy is a crazy wannabe with a typical hater-attitude, not paying his own employees properly and wasting hours every day on social media to discredit others instead devoting it to his own company and work. Actually, you shouldn’t get too angry about this fanatic and beware of trusting this guy. What he needs is more likely a doctor & professional help. It’s just an annoyance to read his melodramatic clairvoyance by hear-saying everywhere else over the internet.

    And yes, lets keep the fingers crossed for the success of SC. It will come. It will not come 100% as every backer anticipated but to those getting nervous – please control your frustration a bit. Be critical but do not join this enviousness-chorus of the typical “internet-haters” 🙂

    • Bobby

      The derekt shart noise machine will grasp at anything to not face the fact the game is being made just fine without their inane input.

  • Elly Davis

    The proof is always in the pudding and the question is is there enough pudding at this time? Should there be more of it by now?

    When CR talked about Star Wars and Disney that immediately set alarm bells ringing. If he is comparing this project to SW or CIG to Disney I think he’s bordering on delusional. Actually, alarm bells rang when I saw the videos of him directing hollywood celebs in the motion capture – it smacked of running before being able to walk.

    It’s admirable that he has a huge vision for this game and he’s tapping into a lot of gamers’ desires and dreams (and pockets) (mine included) but what has been released so far falls short of even the most modest expectations.

    • Ainar

      He’s already worked with Hollywood celebs (Nick Cage for one) when he went into the movie business.

      That being said, the comparison to Disney set off an alarm for me as well because I hate Disney and the new SW is basically New Hope with better visuals (and I mean both Force Awakens and Rogue One).

  • Domaldel

    Right…
    There’s nothing new about this “news”…
    For those of us who have followed this game for a while we’ve pretty much always known that some stretch goals where never meant for day 1 implementation.

  • Chester Rico

    Can we all just accept that Chris Roberts has gone completely insane and forget about this already?

  • CommanderAdama

    Just so we’re clear, I have more than $3000 into this game not including the monthly subscription. During the kickstarter I pledged the to the stars package, and hold the High Admiral title. I have put $2000 more into pledging for ships, upgrade, insurance etc. I am committed to seeing this game flourish.

    I have maybe 25 posts on RSI Forums, most of them are pre-2016. The reason, I have avoided putting my opinions out there for sometime is due to the seemingly universal constant that any opinion that offers simple concerns or a modicum of dissent against Star Citizen is shouted down, thread locked by moderators citing rules which are very ambiguous, or outright deleted. I’ve seen this on RSI forums, Reddit, Twitch and other gaming news sites that I frequent. The comments from others who I know love this game and want the best for it are almost as bad. Apparently everyone is a “Derrick Smart” or a “goon(s?)” or is just stupid going off what the majority of comments I see say. I was so happy for this game and loved the community for years, that ended somewhere in 2015 and I want to return to that.

    Some parts of RSI forums are amazing and encouraging, like the Fan art forums. There are some exceptional artists who post in there and some that aren’t as good, but both are encouraged and lifted up. That’s amazingly helpful for an artist. The ideas forums are another great example of good dialogue.

    The continual toxic vitriol that is sprayed upon anyone who dissents is detrimental to the community and the game as a whole. There is no point in discussing issues, however strongly worded, if no one is allowed to call out concerns. I understand that trolls are just there to stir people up, the best way to combat that is not to scream and yell at people and call them names and tell them they’re stupid because that’s exactly what they want. They want people to react and for the most part the community is doing exactly what they want. It makes it very easy for them to call us morons and zombies and brainwashed because we react to criticism the same way every time. Attributing all dissent to a former Citizen who wrote a blog and some joke website that from what I can tell is basically the Onion with a forum is also not helpful. It’s like in politics when every problem gets blamed on the other side. Nothing gets accomplished and we’re worse off for it. This polarization runs people off who otherwise would probably love to find out what being a citizen is all about. It also creates an echo chamber where the only opinions you’re likely to hear are the ones you already agree with. You miss out on a lot of great ideas and perspectives that way.

    I have concerns about the way our backer money is spent. Given their promise of an open and honest development and transparency I feel we deserve that. If CIG were more open about what is going on, what challenges they’re having with what issue and their plan to overcome the issues they wouldn’t have articles like the one above coming out. They don’t have to do this on anything like a monthly basis, just level with us once on all the issues. One post and they can amend it as issues are fixed. Almost all media coverage of SC lately has been luke-warm neutrality or outright negative. I have serious concerns about the new features are promised on almost a weekly basis, usually in 10ftc, Watching the most recent one and hearing that they’re motion capturing animals? No one is going to notice is this cheetahs gate is not perfectly consistent with an actual cheetah. I greatly appreciate that Chris came out and said that all features won’t be available at launch that they’ll be added in as we go. It makes the task more realistic and gives me hope for a release within the next 2 years.

    I don’t expect people to agree with me. I am not going to argue and likely will never post again. I just think this needs to be said somewhere otherwise I fear for this community.

    • Mitt Zombie

      I have a mint classic car from Houston you might be interested in buying, just washed it..

    • Jannik

      Most people were buying a dream and they will defend it to the death, because all they have is the hopes that it will be what they bought and hoped. This gets muffled because people don’t like their illusions broken, and it is placed in the emotional spectrum, rather than rational. Such people would be in denial that they were sinking, while sinking, to create an analogy, although I am not trying to say that this thing is sinking.

      You are different, even though you spent a huge chunk of money, thus not blind to skepticism that the buyers of dreams wants muffled.

      However, I guess that there is no reason to go 100% to the opposite side, and not have some hope either, which is where a lot of the opposition(not you) is, because they are the mirrored version of the dreamers, whom in many ways, are also governed by emotions, rather than the rational.

  • Danso Jones

    “which by the way includes some of the later stretch goals which we have because not all of that will be right here for the commercial release.”

    Key words there are “Stretch goals which WE have” ie, playing as alien races and owning your own space stations etc. Author is misinterpreting their own internal development stretch goals, as being the community stretch goals from the Kickstarter days. Probably on purpose, to bait clicks, because that’s all journalism is nowadays. Some moron typing whatever idiotic crap they can think of to try and get you to click their dumb story and earn their site money through ads.

    Not saying that all of the stretch goals will be there, but there’s also nothing in there to suggest that they will be missing either. What a load of crap. I’m sorry, Paul, but your article is absolute trash. It really should be a crime to publish these stupid articles that lie about everything, slander games and developers (not just this game, but most of the articles on this sham of a website are the same, if not an advertisement for said game) just to earn money by wasting everyone’s time.

    • Ainar

      Well, not all of the stretch goals, the funding ones, are going to be realized for v1.0 and that’s something Chris has been saying for years. For instance you’re not going to have all 100+ systems available on day 1 and it’s probably going to be quite a while before they can make full use of the procedural generation.

      Still, it’s nothing to worry about because that was expected. It would have been impossible to get all of that done simultaneously, especially considering the time frame over which those stretch goals were created. The first and last ones are more than 2 years apart!

      By ‘we’ I think Chris meant all of us, CIG and the community together.

      Also, playing as alien races is a way WAY off, like 2 more years, if ever as they only ever said they would consider it, if I recall correctly.

      • Danso Jones

        By “stretch goals WE have” he definitely meant internal stretch goals (like the planets example you gave) and not the kickstarter goals (which was implied in the article as what he was referencing). Playing as aliens was confirmed by Chris as something that they would definitely do in an expansion but again, that would be considered as an internal stretch goal. There is no story here.

  • Lemonscampi

    Fun Fact: they never said they would fufill all stretch goals for release,sooooooo

    They also said that the stretch goal for proceduarl planet generation would be in the far future yet they just showed a video of it last week with a charcater running around on the planets surface…

    So some stuff may even be coming sooner……derp

    Move along guys nothing to see here

  • Bobby

    This is nothing new, I’m a backer and I’ve known all stretch goals weren’t going to be on release for more than two years. All you have to do is pay attention to know this. fUD journalism.

  • Leperray

    AAA take 5 years to be created at best. We are at 3 years and half and Alpha does prove it is much than real, with big patch every month.

    Looking for unbiased advice or review None of them are affiliated to CIG about how SC is currently doing? Just check dedicated reddit forum (reddit.com/r/starcitizen/) or Bad News Baron on Twitch.

    Feel free to make your own personal opinion and do not hesitate to come back
    every so often. 2.4 is planned in the next couple week.

    Suggested more recent video of current Alpha 2.1 directly from normal backers:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?…

  • Curunir

    I’mma make this game, yall! Pinky promise! Just stick around another decade!

  • Landon Donavan

    um…..yeah, this is no secret, some things are more important than others and they have brought forward some things earlier they thought would be longer term, such as full procedural planets and atmospheric flight.

    That is more important than some stretch goal about space pets or whatever.

  • corners

    Looks like they are milking everybody money they have and are collecting big bucks off the interest.

    @ 0.5% they are making almost $600,000 a year, just in interest. But im sure its much more than that with sponsors.