Ex-CIG Star Citizen employee tells Derek Smart where to go

Ex-CIG Star Citizen employee tells Derek Smart where to go

Star Citizen is a topic of much discussion and controversy and it’s no huge secret that Derek Smart, creator of 3000AD, has been instrumental in alerting backers to the potential pitfalls of Star Citizen.

As a backer myself I am very concerned about the Star Citizen. It’s development timetable, financing and of course the way in which they attempt to raise funds through concept ship sales. For years Smart has been attempting to alert backers to some of the project’s problems, which is fair enough, but sometimes he can go a little too far with his comments and observations. Not that it will bother him of course, he is Derek Smart. However, his approach to alerting backers is not always on point.

In his latest Twitter posting spree he discusses people leaving CIG and singled out a developer who has now left. Smart claimed the dev as trying to keep his departure quiet and that he was a lead “DevOps guy”. Following his departure, the developer had changed his Twitter handle and Smart had claimed he was trying to “mask it” and posted a shot of his old Twitter handle. Smart then pointed to his new Twitter handle. This naturally frustrated the developer who responded without holding back.

Not everyone agrees with Derek Smart’s approach to releasing information about CIG and Star Citizen and this is one example of where Smart does not do himself any favours.

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  • Comments: 129
    • AStormApproaches

      Quick reminder that refunds are still available for star citizen but it is unclear how much longer this will be the case.

      • wuhwuhwhat?

        Pledges are also still available. 🙂

        • Joe Blobers

          Yep… +2M$ on average per month… despite the 3.0 “delay drama” 🙂 This is the end really 🙂

          • VOAD_Parray

            “delay drama” have been almost one full year to date, and 3.0 is fraction of what CR promise.
            Agreed. This is the end, really 🙂

            • Joe Blobers

              +2M$ per months on average… the “drama” (noticed the bracket?) is evaporating in weeks… just before the next one about 3.1… 🙂

              • VOAD_Parray

                3.1? HAHAHAHA 3.0 not even released. Weeks not months, like Star Marine. LOLOL
                Swallow it 🙂

              • Joe Blobers

                Feeding troll is useless so I amke it short for Readers. Star marine was cancelled according to them… and then released to every backers.
                Keep trolling.

            • Dragon75

              How do you know its a fraction of whats promised, have you played it and seen it or are you just making things up?

              • VOAD_Parray

                CR never rectify or refute this. CIG never refute this. 3.0 not out yet. Care to give insider info to prove otherwise?

              • Dragon75

                When it comes to the number of star systems that was refuted by CIG.

                As for the rest of the stuff posted there, there is a single mention about 3.0 supposedly being downsized, but with no concrete information about it.
                There is absolutely nothing that compares the currently planned 3.0 with was was supposedly planned previously, only a statement that claims its downsized.
                I did a search for it and can find absolutely nothing to support that claim
                You want to talk proof, where is the proof to the claim that 3.0 has been downsized?

                I consider the information you linked highly questionable and unreliable at best as best as the information i sourced behind a paywall and used by the least credible person(or his followers) on the entire Internet.
                And there is no way to confirm what the information actually are unless you are willing to pay for it, and that frankly makes me question the validity of the source.

              • Joe Blobers

                VOAD_Parray is a dedicated troll account to replace any of the already banned previous troll name.

              • Torb Inator

                http://dereksmart.com/ Start reading.

              • Dragon75

                I asked for proof, concrete proof and hard facts, not unfounded speculation and opinion presented as fact.

              • Onetwoseventeen

                Dick Shart is a hasbeen who never actually was. He hasn’t had one successful game in his “Career” (term used ever so lightly) he’s so salty about how good wing commander was he has had “virtual penis envy” of Chris Roberts ever since. The sooner this fake news, fake game dev fades off into obscurity the better!

            • Matt Malone

              You guys are fucking stupid.

      • Lawford Bonladur

        I never stop wondering what do you people gain from spreading this kind of hate.
        It looks to me that: a) People love trolling. b) SC is an easy target, and c) Derek Smart knows how to talk his way to make impressionable people do what he wants.

        • AStormApproaches

          How is what I wrote hateful?

          • Lawford Bonladur

            Isn’t it obvious? You wrote with the explicit intention of damaging someone’s business economically. The question it’s not wether it’s hateful, but rather if it’s legal.

            • AStormApproaches

              bahahhaha. ok.

              • Rasto

                AStormApproaches, you just have been endorsed by Derek NotSoSmart. Congratulations!

              • Joe Blobers

                DS giving a little hug/like to his preferred minion/troll… this is cute 🙂

            • I_U

              Refunds aren’t an attack, they’re just a consumer right. Anyone unhappy with a purchase they’ve made should absolutely try to get a refund, especially if that product is not what was advertised, is defective, or is never delivered to them.

              Yeah, it’s a shame that the software development project you’re excited about is funded by pre-sales and that some of their customers feel ripped off, but it’s just the way the retail industry works. It’s supposed to encourage companies to only sell good/working products, to advertise them accurately, and to make sure the customers receive them on time. That’s why most companies don’t pre-sell products that aren’t very close to shipping already: it’s just too risky!

              If you’re going to blame anyone for it, blame CIG for setting up a store instead of just putting up a tip jar. The moment they framed the transaction as a sale, they became a retailer, and their customers were covered by consumer protection laws.

              • Lawford Bonladur

                Refunds aren’t an attack. Encouraging everyone to do so – specially with ill intention – is.

                Attacking a videogame online because you’re following someone else’s agenda, that is sad.

              • I_U

                First off, reminding people of their rights as consumers is a good thing to do, especially when it’s for a purchase that was made sight unseen. If you think that simply saying “refunds are still available” is encouraging EVERYONE to get a refund, that says more about how satisfied you think most people who bought Star Citizen are with their purchase than it does about the intentions of the guy giving the reminder. Ultimately, it’s up to anyone who bought the game to decide whether they got what they paid for, or want to wait to see if they will get what they paid for, or if they are just happy paying for whatever they might get: saying “refunds are still available” doesn’t really influence that decision for anyone.

                For whatever it’s worth, I’m sure there are plenty of people who bought Star Citizen and have no problem letting that purchase stand. (Which is good, since CIG has already spent a lot of that money!) If CIG was correct when they said they had way more than enough money to finish their games, then there’s no reason to begrudge any unhappy customers for getting a refund, and no reason for you to feel “attacked” when people are reminded that they have a right to ask for one. CIG’s not going to be hurt if they’re held accountable for what they sell, customers aren’t going to be hurt if they know their rights. Your feelings might be hurt, I guess, but that’s your own business.

              • Lawford Bonladur

                Yeah sure, because the sole intention here is, of course, defend consumer’s rights. That’s everything Derek Smart and his goons are all about.

                Spoiler: no, it isn’t -> https://archive.is/XWeua

                Don’t be such an hypocrite.

              • I_U

                All evidence says that CIG will give a refund to anyone who asks for it. You should be happy about that, because it suggests they aren’t worried about running out of money for development (either because they have, as they claim, much more money than they’ll need to finish their games, or because they’re sure that they can sell more expensive ships to make up for any refunds they issue).

                Look: nobody’s going to get a refund just because some dork on the internet said they could. The ONLY reason anyone will get a refund is because they are unhappy with what they paid for, and that’s always how it’s going to be. If CIG has happy and satisfied customers, none of them will ask for refunds. And if they don’t have happy and satisfied customers, that’s THEIR fault, not the fault of some internet conspiracy theory, and being a jerk about consumer rights reminders isn’t going to change that.

              • Joe Blobers

                Except that pledging to a crowfdfunded project which turn to be 2 Triple-A game for not even the price of one is a bargain.

                Years since the end of kickstarter end of Nov. 2012, a team of 12 and 6 M$…. Most players (99%) understand what Triple-A means and what effort are required to mabuilt a team of talented team of +428 and create uptodate pipelines and game engine..

                Meanwhile, 10 guys and alts are running on each SC article crying first at bankrupcy but…ooops it doesnt not work… no collapse despite a SURE evidence already in 2015 by Master troll himself…. 2 years and half… the sure collapse, 90 days top!…. has evaporated… wait, no! it is coming.. for sure… in 90 days top… or close too 🙂

                Now the next deal to try hurt SC Community and CR is get a refund 🙂

                +2 m$ on average per month… the biggest aptch ever releaqsed 3.0 right at the corners and all 4 remaining patch to be released along 2018… this is the end! refund…. 🙂

              • I_U

                I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say there, but I’ll try and give you a response anyway: if I didn’t correctly guess what your word salad was getting at, I apologize.

                There is no way that “10 guys and alts” are ever going to convince people who are happy with their purchase of Star Citizen to get a refund. It won’t happen. Happy customers don’t ask for refunds.

                Let’s say that again, in case you missed the point: HAPPY CUSTOMERS DO NOT ASK FOR REFUNDS.

                So all CIG has to do to guarantee its future is to keep its customers happy. If they make a good game and give good customer service, it simply won’t matter how many times people are reminded that refunds are available, because no one will want one. CIG knows this; every company that sells things knows this. However many refund requests CIG gets depends entirely on how well they’re doing with customer relations, and not at all on who posts “refunds are available” or where they post it.

                So whether you think posting about refunds is trolling or not doesn’t matter. You — by which I mean you, a devout fan of Star Citizen — don’t have to care one way or the other, or worry about the effect it could have on the game. The plain fact is that CIG are the only ones who have any real influence over whether their customers are happy or unhappy.

                (Although it’s true that every time fans of Star Citizen get all crazy-eyed about “trolls” who post basic information about consumer rights, they’re basically invoking the Streisand Effect on refund information, so I guess that’s okay. It’s good for people to know their rights!)

              • Joe Blobers

                Quote:”CIG has to do to guarantee its future is to keep its customers happy”
                Good luck as a CEO of any company to keep ALL customers happy. That does not exist.
                Star Citizen is a crowdfunded project, a triple-A. Some pretend to have a Triple-a in 3 years… or 5 years starting with a team of 12…. And then you have guys like you who pretend to link Happyness with crowdfunded project…

                Depending on complexity, project take months or years…. you will NEVER get all backers happy to use your world…. It is all about education of what game development means. You can’t be happy without understanding why and how.

                You and few guys are just playing on frustration feeling rather than education… You can’t win this battle man because like it or not… 3.0 is coming and remaining patch will be delivered in 2018. Which mean closer from beta… and more “happyness” based on your scale of game development value 🙂

                More backers… not less.

              • I_U

                Gee, you’re right, a company can’t keep ALL of their customers happy.

                Maybe that’s why when a company has an unhappy customer and can’t turn that relationship around, they offer a refund! (Well, that, and the fact that consumer protection laws exist, but let’s just say for the sake of argument that CIG is a good company that would offer refunds to unhappy customers even without being legally obligated to.)

                Anyway, there’s a very basic principle you should consider here: if you’ve got the right to decide that you’re happy with your purchase, then other people have the right to decide for themselves if they’re happy with theirs. Either way, it’s CIG’s problem to deal with, not yours, and they’re doing it: they’re selling new ships to anyone who wants them, and they’re giving refunds to anyone who wants them. Business as usual.

              • Joe Blobers

                Business as usual… not really. The few rushing every single article to shoot “refunds before too late” are not claiming for individual right but are following an hater agenda to try to hurt a project done by many.

                $ are used to pay salaries… for job already done and that keep being done (3.0)… asking someone to give back his salary is not business as usual… especially when the $ collected are to create something that does not exist and that every backers means the understanding: Alpha and game development.

                This is not business as usual… this is hater campaing as usual…. Big difference. I see no one without an agenda, that would have get what he was looking for (in that case a refund if you say so)… and rush everywhere to say: Get one as well! …. 🙂
                Good luck explaining that you left ten’s of comments without an agenda of someone who decided to go further and try to hurt a collective project… You are like DS who said: “I do not hate CR and do not want to hurt this project”… but on other thread shoot:”I want them to burn all”….

                Bacekrs want to build something… you enjoy trying to destroy it… Your faith today will follow you tomorrow man 🙂

              • I_U

                Cool, let’s talk agendas, then. Mine is straightforward: I don’t like pre-sales as a general rule, and I don’t like seeing companies (or their fans!) over-hyping and making exaggerated claims about games that aren’t finished, because it almost always guarantees that the game itself will be a disappointment in comparison. It’s a practice that I think is bad for the gaming industry, bad for consumers, and bad for society. (And I realize that I’m saying this to a guy who is constantly over-hyping and making exaggerated claims about Star Citizen, but I swear, it’s not personal.)

                Also, it’s clear that CIG is explicitly selling products to people: not taking donations. They moved off Kickstarter to their own online store years ago, and there’s a reason for that. And while I think that’s a sketchy way to run a business, it’s legal. Nobody’s forcing anyone to buy games from them, any more than anyone is forced to pre-order games from other companies. Whatever I think about how they run their company hardly matters. But their customers deserve the same rights as the customers of any other company. Every company has payroll and expenses, every company has customers: CIG isn’t entitled to special treatment just because they sold pre-orders on an incredibly ambitious game that they knew wouldn’t be finished for years. It’s a risk CIG took willingly, and by all accounts, their monthly sales have always exceeded the amount of refunds requested, so I sincerely doubt refunds are going to be an issue for them anytime soon: from what I can see, they’ve made a lot of money and have built a very
                hardcore fanbase of people just like you, most of whom seem perfectly
                happy with their purchase.

                Anyway, while it is true that I don’t think CIG can make the game that they have promised, it’s also true that I genuinely don’t care if they’re “destroyed” or not. I don’t think that you’ll get the Star Citizen you’re dreaming of, but it’d be nice if you did. I just wish you treated it as a game you bought, rather than as a lifestyle you had to defend at all costs.

                So that’s me. What’s YOUR agenda? What do you personally get out of being the hype man for Star Citizen?

              • I_U

                Okay, lets talk agendas, then! Mine is straightforward: I don’t like pre-orders, and I don’t like it when companies over-hype and make exaggerated claims about products that are still in development. I think it makes for games that disappoint more people than they please, and I think it’s bad for the industry, bad for game developers, and bad for society.

                So CIG’s business model, where they pre-sell things on their online store (it’s not crowdfunding — they are sales, CIG is one of the first to say so!) seems very sketchy to me. But it’s perfectly legal, and nobody’s forcing anyone to buy things from them, so whether I think it’s sketchy or not hardly matters. I do firmly believe that CIG isn’t entitled to special treatment just because they’re pre-selling a very ambitious game that is years away from completion: it’s a risk they chose to take, and their customers should still have the same rights as the customers of any other company. Their customers bought a game, they didn’t buy a lifestyle: if they haven’t gotten the game they bought yet or they don’t like what they bought, both the law and good business practices agree that they’re entitled to take a refund and walk away.

                That might be something you and I will always disagree about, but it’s (fortunately?) not up to either of us to decide it. It’s a fact, though, that CIG makes its plans based on their monthly sales figures (which include refunds), and it’s long been said that they make a good chunk of money every month. They’ve certainly been very good at cultivating a hardcore fanbase of people who seem to be happy to keep buying their products, and I don’t think those fans are ever going to ask for refunds, so I sincerely doubt that refunds will significantly “hurt” this project. If sales are down or refunds are up, they have their strategies for making up the difference, we’ve all seen it already.

                So, please, enough with the doom-and-gloom predictions about how terrible it will be for Star Citizen if people get refunds, or worse, if people even mention refunds. It’s not going to be terrible. It’s not going to bring down the company. It’s not going to make it impossible for them to finish the game. If the game doesn’t get made, it’ll be because they simply couldn’t make it, not because people didn’t give them enough money to make it.

                Now, it’s true that I don’t think CIG can make the game they’ve promised, but I don’t want to see it “destroyed” (as if anything people say on the internet could even do that!). I doubt you’re going to get the Star Citizen you’re dreaming of, but I agree that it would be nice if you did. It’s also true that I’m motivated largely by curiosity: a project like this, that looks the way it does from the outside, is just fascinating. If it succeeds, it’ll be the biggest Cinderella story of all time. If it fails, it’ll be a bigger cautionary tale than Ion Storm Dallas. Either way, I want to see what happens.

                So that’s me. What’s YOUR agenda, Joe Blobers? What motivates you to post “tens of comments” praising Star Citizen to the skies and attacking anyone who’s skeptical about it?

              • I_U

                Let’s keep it simple: CIG makes its plans according to their monthly sales (and they are sales, not donations). Even with refunds, they still apparently make money every month. So refunds aren’t going to “hurt” or “destroy” Star Citizen: if CIG loses revenue to refunds, they’ll make up for it by selling more ships, as we’ve already seen.

                CIG is a big company, with plenty of money and a hardcore fanbase that seems very happy to keep buying from them, and that’s likely to be a reliable source of revenue for them at least through 2018, if not longer. If Star Citizen doesn’t get made, it won’t be because of anything anyone on the internet says, it won’t be because of refunds, and it won’t be because they needed another $157m: it’ll just be because they were not capable of making the game. And that’ll be a shame, but they knew the risks when they started.

              • Joe Blobers

                They are pledges, not sale and they are not doing apparently 2m$ per motnh, they are getting 2M$ new pledges every month.

                We can clearly see your behavior I_U. Try to instil doubt in readers mind that there is a possibility of not doing it. This is a pure joke. They do have 159M$, a year of cash ahead and full pipelines and game engine uptodate.

                Beside the few guys with multiple alts crying to the moon since 2 years and half “this is the end!” every end of quarter 🙂 The vast majority (99.95% of total backers) are either waiting for next patch(s) or some more vocal, expressing a form of frustration because they now game development is complex starting from scratch but they want so much to play with SC… like me by the way but long time ago I decided that being immature make life worst than easier 🙂

                The game SQ42 Chapter 1 and SC are groing up every single quarter and will be ready for end of 2018. In Beta for SC and release for SQ42 Chapter 1.

                There is no risk except not having the possibility to pledge for big ship with cash after release. The smart one are trading or keep their big ship for grey market to make big cash… because after Beta you will have two types of winners: Those who pledged for starter package at a bargain.. and those with bigger pocket who can either kuse ships in game or sell them for profit.

                I bet you that you will have again with next big patch more backers pledging ships just for this purposes only.

              • I_U

                Saying it’s “pledges not sales” doesn’t make it true, especially when CIG calls it a sale and offers refunds on it. They’re not public television or a charity or a non-profit: they’re a for-profit company, and they are pre-selling you a game, and ships for that game. No point in trying to weasel out of that one, dude. If you gave them any money after the Kickstarter ended, you’re officially a customer and not a backer as far as they’re concerned.

                Also, I’m not trying to instill doubt in anyone’s mind, I’m just saying what’s in MY mind, because you asked. Like you, all I can see is what they’ve done so far, and what their marketing claims they’re trying to do. But where you see great promise (and apparently fat stacks of cash to be made by re-selling ships?) and imagine optimistic release dates that CIG themselves certainly aren’t even pretending to suggest are reasonable, what I’m seeing looks like a project in freefall. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe YOU’RE wrong, neither of us are going to know until it’s over and the dust settles.

                So, since you’re here, let me ask: are there two different people posting as Joe Blobers, or just one really confused one? Because you’ve gone from saying that saying “refunds are available” is an attack designed to destroy CIG and that any refund granted is literally stealing money from the paychecks of poor CIG employees, to claiming that the game is already wildly popular and well ahead of schedule and about to get them even more customers and more money. Which is it? Is the company so fragile that it needs its fans to form defensive hate-brigades at the slightest sign of skepticism so that weak-willed customers won’t seek refunds, or is it so brilliantly successful that no one could ever doubt its strength?

              • Joe Blobers

                Nothing to do about a company being fragile or not, it is just about education and respect.

                Education for being educated about game development and do not ask for a Triple-A release when even Publishers can’t do it with billions of dollars and thousands of employees. The 3.0 burndown report is pretty clear about that. Bugs have to be cleared out while +428 employees are working on many others aspect of the final game (both SQ42 and SC).

                Respect because if you follow and support someone, stealing what you pledge for from a project (and employees) is not a way to say “I disagree” but a direct intend to hurt the whole project. That is exactly why DS is trying to do since 2015, (failed) prophecies of collapse since 2 years and half and pushing/liking anyone (I mean the same 10 anyone with alts) who cry for “refund before too late”. A clear evil behavior. The guy said “I want to burn them all”… Backers and CR. Your call to follow him.

                Can he hurt the project? No, impact is negligeable but still an Evil attitude. That what I disagree with on principle. the evil attitude, nothing else.

                Beside that, you will see after 3.0/3.1/3.2 new and old backers… rushing to buy more bigger/expensive ships. Because of Grey market and guys not going through the lengthy patch of in game grinding credits. Guarantee.
                The one who will lost what they where looking for when they first pledge are the one going for any type of refund path… They did pledges for a reason… and they will have to go the long long long way to get a Carrack back in hangar.

                The winner are always those who built something not those who try to destroy it. They got the best place, location or opportunity.

                Confirmed to be an IRL rule that apply to crowdfunding as well.

                You can disagree 🙂

              • I_U

                I definitely disagree: it’s far more “evil” to say that CIG’s customers have fewer rights than any other company’s customers. How can anyone even argue for that?

                The answer is: they can’t, and that’s why — thankfully — CIG disagrees with you, too, and gives out refunds to anyone who asks. The hell with Derek Smart (who I remember from his endless flamewars on Usenet, and he hasn’t changed a bit), this is about basic respect for customers. If you sell someone a thing and can’t deliver, you’re obligated to make it right. Sometimes that means giving them their money back and letting them go their way.

                Cute way to work in the “buy more ships, you may never get another chance!” sales pitch, though. Do you get a commission for that, or do you just do it out of the goodness of your heart? 😛

              • Joe Blobers

                Problem with “you’re obligated to make it right.” is that everyone (well let say many) have a different opinion of what is right. That is what I talked about education (in the sense of course of education about what game development imply based on team size, budget and so on growing from a precise date to another date).

                No… zero commission on anything 🙂 But I strongly believe that those who may decide to not keep supporting will regret it deeply in less than a year. Either someone is spending several hundreds on top of a regular pledge (45$) and can’t refrain to do so.. and should clearly not do so… (addiction is bad) or he knows he really wanted such or such more expensive ships and will badly missed it at release or Beta… and will have to get it with in game Credits or $… at a premium price.

              • I_U

                And if this “education” doesn’t change the fact that they’re unhappy and still want a refund, you wouldn’t have any further objections to allowing them to have the same consumer rights protections as anyone else? Will they need to take a formal exam to prove their credentials before they can ask for a refund, or is a signed note from their teacher going to be enough? 😉

                For the record, the first step in CIG’s refund process is always sending a form letter begging their customer to reconsider, complete with an explanation of how game development is a long and difficult process and even the usual barrage of “big things and new patches are coming ‘soon’!” promises. And I imagine that’s been enough to keep a few customers, but since it’s only the really unhappy customers who ask for refunds in the first place, if that form letter doesn’t work, CIG just processes the refund and moves on. They don’t go online and call their former customers evil, they don’t curse them, they don’t accuse them of being traitors or trolls. They just say, “We’re sorry to see you go, please consider watching our progress and coming back whenever you want!”, like any sane business would.

                If only people who were fans of Star Citizen could follow that example, huh?

              • Joe Blobers

                Yes they need to proide creditential. This is required by law, the one you are waving at every comment.
                I stand my words. What we see here is a small sample of humanity behavior. Some looking to built something and learn in the meantime others acting like 10 years old child… who will regret in few quarters their childish raging attittude… while complaing in the meantime that Publishers did delivered againthe same crap that the 10 last years.

                Better know with who you are going to make a long trip… personaly I won’t ever make a partty of co-workers or buddy with immature guys.
                unhappiness is okay for child. Handling frustration and learning is for mature.

                Of course this is harder this is why the weak never reach the top line 🙂

                Again, this is negligeable financially speaking, I am talking about human behavior.

              • I_U

                I apologize, I forgot that you’re not a native English speaker.

                When I made a joke about how you think CIG’s customers need to “prove their credentials” to get a refund, I meant your weird insistence that people who want a refund first need to be re-educated about “game development” before they can be treated fairly. I wasn’t talking about the credentials “required by law” (receipts/proof of purchase, etc.) to show that they are customers in the first place.

                For the record, all most consumer protection laws require is that the customer be able to show that they paid for a product, when they paid for it, and that the product was not received, was defective, or was not what was advertised. And not surprisingly, that’s all CIG requires before issuing a refund, and they don’t publicly moan about how “immature” their former customers are or call them “weak” and claim that they’ll come crawling back later, either. They just give them their money back.

              • Joe Blobers

                Of course they do not call anyone immature or moron or whatever. What CR said recently was talking about a very small vocal minority. No company (except we know who) would be aggressive with customers.

                The fact CIG did not say so does not mean that current behavior of some, does not fall in the immature side, with or without bracket.
                Acting as such is never good for anyone. What we see in this comment section is the split between human behavior… verifiable everyday.

                I sympathise with those with a negative attitude because they will suffer and to be clear, already suffer IRL the effect of their behavior.

                As I said most of them are going to regret it in a year but this not important, this is a game, the world is not going to collapse nor CIG…. but the real problem is that they will react the same way IRL in much more challenging situation and professional or private consequences.
                Frustration/unhappiness handling is the battle to win… not a game patch to be released in October versus June.

              • Joe Blobers

                Immature they are and regret deeply the will 🙂

              • Torb Inator

                https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5153b2e7c38f511b863826809c90333e9f64ce21d986722e3233cbab9ba7471a.jpg Torb Inator • a minute ago

                “There was lots of arguing within our guild, but in the end the whales who had contributed the most had the final say, and we refunded our three completionist packages, originally purchased at $15k each, so $45k total refund. We sidelined many other great games and commercial opportunities waiting for Star Citizen, but in the end we can’t wait any longer, and a new generation is joining also who have absolutely no interest. The final straw was evidence presented the committee of Chris Roberts blatantly lying, we don’t mind the delays but couldn’t handle the lies anymore, and it left us wondering what else he is knowingly lying about.”

              • AStormApproaches

                Part of the reason I post those reminders is because CIG was denying refunds for a long period of time, up until they were contacted by the LA Attorney General. Many people in the SC community still think they are not eligible for refunds because the two week “refund window” had ended. That is no longer true.

              • I_U

                Keep doing what you’re doing! I know it gets you a lot of grief from the people who seem to think the only way to keep CIG financially solvent is to trick or bully their unhappy customers into just giving up, but we have consumer protection laws for a reason.

              • Palonto

                Wrong! They always done refunds on a case to case basis. You are lying to further that idiot Derek Smart his did spreading

              • Joe Blobers

                Except that The LA Attorney has NEVER settled any case against CIG.

                CIG has always made refund on case by case basis since day one depending on each individual situation…. and local countries laws. U.S law does not apply in Switzerland man…
                keep dreaming to burn Star Citizen as DS said publicly:”I want to burn them all”…

                On top of that most refunds story are fake… the last one was the 16K refund… totally forged… and so many others 🙂
                +2M$ NEW pledges every single months…. and 3.0 is not even delivered… get ready for the storm of new pledges from October to December 🙂

                The goal is to try to hurt SC community and CR… all coming from one guy with an agenda since two decades: DS

              • Ulric L. Wolf

                Sheesh, prove ‘most refund stories are fake’. Good luck with that btw, you’ve got to find them all, vet each one and collate the data.

                It’s just like your claim “CIG has always made refund on case by case basis since day one depending on each individual situation…. and local countries laws.”
                AS you do not work for CIG you do not know what they actually have or have not done, you are simply being a hyprocrite.

              • Joe Blobers

                Yea man I know truth is hard to swallow… 🙂

              • Ulric L. Wolf

                I don’t think you understand the definition of ‘truth’.

              • Stannis Targaryen

                I want a refund for Elite Dangerous!

            • Torb Inator

              CRoberts is lying and stealing millions from gullible gamers.

          • Palonto

            Because you are a troll.

      • Monsieur de Comte Beaujangles


        • Tinus

          Yes, to still defend Chris Roberts and the scam he is running at the moment, you must have some balls. Of quite some size too. Man, are those white knight cultist fanboys in for a surprise in the next couple months…

          • Collin Read

            Yes, we “fanboys” were in for a surprise. We certainly were not disappointed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9RUWxsVmws

            And… this is still a scam…?

            • Tinus

              Yes. They showed a demo of what you can do when you stitch a couple of standard CryEngine levels together. Nothing of what they showed is actual gameplay. Nothing of that is in the 3.0 build and nothing of that will ever be in the game. Nice video, sure. More smoke and mirrors via a videoclips. A re-run of 2016. But where is the actual game? Where is what was promised all those years ago? It’s not out there, and it won’t be simply because it can’t be done. Backers are actually buying pretty pictures so CIG can create more video’s. But you just keep on believing that it’ll all work out. By all means, give Chris more money. For his exit strategy!

      • T.W.

        Quick reminder that the goons are pissed because they could not force their will onto CIG and changed sides from frenetic fan to obsessive haters.

        • AStormApproaches


          • T.W.

            What is it that you do not understand? I´ll help you.

        • Rasto

          ROFL, frenetic fan
          Still remember that Goon imbecile drolling about his Connie being the ultimate win-game ship. Seeing trolls being trolled is priceless.

        • Palonto


      • Torb Inator

        Especially in light of the new shell company they set up as referenced in the first tweet featured above .

      • Palonto

        Thanks! I will pledge some more. Thank you for the advertising.

      • Stannis Targaryen

        I really want a refund for Elite Dangerous!

        • I_U

          Ha, it’s funny because everyone usually references No Man’s Sky when they make that joke!

          Mind you, if you’re serious about wanting a refund for Elite: Dangerous, you might be able to get one, depending on your circumstances and which country you live in. Australia and Europe in particular have really good consumer protection laws.

          If you bought Elite: Dangerous through Steam, for example, it’s incredibly easy to get a refund, as long as you request it within 14 days of purchase and have played less than 2 hours. If you’re outside one or both of those windows, you’re not necessarily out of luck — sometimes they’ll still give you a refund if you have a convincing argument for it.

          (If you backed it on Kickstarter, I guess you could appeal directly to Frontier for a refund. They might give you one just because it would be hilarious and because gaming websites would get to write funny articles about it.)

          • Stannis Targaryen

            I’m an early backer of Elite Dangerous kickstarter so sadly I will never be able to get a refund….I am also an early Backer of Star Citizen and I and with the continuous progress CIG is making I don’t think a refund will be necessary….ED had potential but with the incremental patches with very little to no content in them ED is just taking for ever to show any real promise….With that being said 3.0 for SC has new planetary landing tech and with so many new things coming online…And to be honest I’m glad they are not rushing 3.0 to release to please some publisher….CIG should take as long as they need to get it done right the first time….exciting times ahead for SC….

      • Bobby

        every time i see a refunds post i send CIG more money

    • Ed_Stark

      Derek Smart is probably mentally ill and enabling him in any way is repugnant.

    • Foulwin

      Quick reminder that Smart posted about Chris Roberts family and children, got a Cease and Desist letter from their lawyer. He’s also posted photoshoped images of devs and streamers and presented it as real. He’s said the project was doomed to fail in 6 months every 6 months for the past 4 years. It’s nice to see the writer of this article is more interested in drama then doing their fucking job. How about you show how Derek Smart has stalked people on LinkedIn, how he stalks their twitter, how he calls Star Citizen Backers ‘spergs’, show is continual lies and mentally unwell posts? You know, actual fucking journalism instead of this blog posting opinion drama begging nonsense?

      • Tinus

        Quick reminder that C&D letter had no legal status whatsoever as laywers of Derek confirmed. That was the last of the C&D ever to be heard off.

        • http://www.dereksmart.org Derek Smart

          They’re morons.

          My attorney wiped the floor with Ortwin, and we never heard from him again.

          The C&D and my attorney’s blistering response are in linked this post.


          We were hoping they would actually file it, then sue me. But alas, when you’re running a scam, the last thing you want is to sue the one guy who can defend himself, and most likely to expose everything and and get people sent people to jail.

          They think attacking me and/or making stuff up is going to change anything. It’s not. Hilariously, as we’ve all said, they’re the worst thing to ever happen to the project; and they’re the reason the community gets a bad rap.

          • T.W.

            Heeeeey Derek…

            first read this own twitter post of you:

            and now eat your own shit:

            Snake in a Suite 😉

            You are no victim… you are the offender.

          • T.W.

            The only valid reason the Star Citizen community is called toxic because you said so. That alone is no proof.

            Son, I am dissapoint


          • Palonto

            Bullshit! You have no lawyers. Changing your signature and your email address does not make you a lawyer. You are going to get burned sooner or later and you will not even be left with a cardboard box.

            I have sources that confirmed it. I just came of the phone while walking into a building.

          • Joe Blobers

            Yes DS… everything you say is true… like you saying: “I got 200M$… then 100M$ from my games 🙂

            And even on the technical side, you are supposed to master right?:

            – Idris are not flyable and can’t be”: 2 Idris were fighting in a live demo weeks ago 🙂

            – “Seamless from space to planet is decades away”: Seen also in live demo by 35.000 Twitcher;.. and available to everyone with a starter package in weeks with 3.0

            Pathetic 🙂

            About yours lies (just a small selection: https://sctrollsdump.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/oceans-twelve-lies/

            • VOAD_Parray

              “available to everyone with a starter package in weeks with 3.0”
              You been shooting that since CR promised 3.0 in Decembre 2016.
              Pathetic 🙂

              • Joe Blobers

                VOAD_Parray… a newly account created just to harass backers (and more precisely me) not saying “collapse” with the few trolls… keep going man 🙂
                More “comments”= more visibility of article on site 🙂

                Available to everyone with a starter package in weeks with 3.0

              • VOAD_Parray

                You have no idea when 3.0 drops. Suck it. It amaze me that you defend things which are not even released. Are you CIG employee? Thought not. You have no real infos.

      • http://www.dereksmart.org Derek Smart

        You’re a moron. Making up shit isn’t going to change that, nor is it going to make Star Citizen any less of a scam or a finished game.

        But don’t worry though, I welcome the attacks. Without you guys, I would need to invest in a marketing company to signal boost my quest. Now there’s yet another Star Citizen story with my name attached to it, and the flock shows up to signal boost as usual. Well done.

        Star Citizen is a scam. Chris Roberts is a scam artist, a fraud, and a liar. He has literally scammed $160M from gamers, made himself rich from it – and is now preparing to do what he has done in the past: dump the company and fuck off to go do something else.

        The latest shell company is just the tip of the iceberg; and my article about it from yesterday isn’t even 10% of the full story. Blog coming soon


        • Lawford Bonladur
          • Tinus

            I’m not Derek. Djeez, to say Derek is right somehow gets the white knight cultist fanboys awake everywhere and they always assume you are him.

            • Lawford Bonladur

              Are you aware of your being used?

              • Tinus

                No, since I am not. Are you aware that still defending Scam Shitizen by now is about the dumbest thing you can do?

            • Stannis Targaryen

              More like Derek Smart gets all the black knight cultists everywhere like your self spreading his lies….

        • Foulwin

          Let’s go through a small small selection your lies you fucking moron. Visit reddit /dereksmart for documentation of all this nonsense, archived and easy to follow.

          September 2015 “Meanwhile 9 people in Austin were informed that their jobs are being eliminated in October. – Derek Smart” A lie. LIttle D has claimed for years various studios were going to close, they haven’t. All FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt) bullshit.

          July 2015 “There isn’t a single publisher or developer on this planet who could
          build this game as pitched, let alone for anything less than $150
          million.- Derek Smart” The Game has over $150 million, you lose.

          January 2017 “Except that it’s false. And yes, they LIED. I know at least two investors; and one took his money out last year; even making a video about it. – Derek Smart” No video or link to any investor provided. Made up bullshit by the guy with the fake PHD.

          December 2016 “*WARNING* Next week, I’m going to burn what’s left of the Star Citizen ship Grey market. Remember what happened last time?- Derek Smart” Nothing happened much like your LOD game development. Usually hot air and no substance.

          April 2016 “For some time now, the events which I believe will lead to the
          catastrophic collapse of the project, and which have accumulated to
          become the Extinction Level Event, have been in full swing. – Derek Smart” Game continues to develop with 4 studios around the world. Ever get tired of being wrong Derek?

          July 2016 “I have seen some translations by native Goon Swedes. Oh man, Spergs & Shitizens on /r/ds r going to need extra meds – Derek Smart” Spergs as in Aspergers? Shitizens as those who support a video game? Very classy.

          August 2017 “With another divorce between Chris and Sandi rumored to be in the works
          now, that’s one less nepotism claim I guess. They all got rich. -Derek Smart” Wow, spreading rumors about a game developers relationship with no facts, sources or why it’s any of your business? What a fucking cunt you are.

          September 2017 -“He won’t & can’t. The interview he gave to those Nazis over at GameStar.de has clues as to what he plans – Derek Smart” You called a german video game company Nazi’s? Wow, why wouldn’t anyone take a shit head like you serious small D?

          So to sum up, your a failed developer who’s been obsessed with Chris Roberts for over 4 years now. You spend hours each day posting this bullshit instead of doing anything worthwhile, including the piece of crap LOD game you can’t get working. You’ve claimed the studios, developers and company is near collapse every few months and never admit you were wrong. You stalk the people working at the company and if any leave for benign reasons (moving, another job, etc) you claim it’s some huge problem.

          Listen, grow the fuck up you man child.

        • T.W.
        • Rasto

          Little D: “But don’t worry though, I welcome the attacks. Without you guys, I would need to invest in a marketing company to signal boost my quest.”
          ROFL well of course you do, you little incompetent narcissistic failure of a developer! Because what else is left for you, watching your own stupidity to throw wagons of flying shit right back to your sorry face? You are just as pathetic as the neo-nazi crybaby we all seen collapse on Youtube after Charlottesville. It’s either lying and making the shit up how “this is the thing though”, or then crying how Star Citizen cultist fanboys are attacking poor defender of human rights, right? Ahahahah jesus christ boy, know what? Go and show your fellow narcissistic moron Trump some support, instead of kicking this easy target. Because you two are equally embarrassingly laughable. LOL

        • Joe Blobers

          Here is a much better link that provide an alternate vision about why DS is involved. Today “drama” with a young developer is nothing but another clear proof of DS behavior against SC comunnity at large, past and future behavior as he won’t change. Thousands of misleading twitt, comments and blogs in just 2 years and half… so sad:


    • Dasisbjorn

      I understand you’re trying to be as unbiased as possible, but Derek Smart has never “released” information on star citizen. He’s never had an actual inside scoop, he’s purposefully doxxed people in the past, and has a personal vendetta against Chris Roberts. His dedication to attempting to derail the game and hurt it as much as he can leaves him a clearly non-reliable and highly biased actor in the drama.

      There are genuine concerns, no crowdfunded project has ever been this big, and no project this size (that I know of) has had this level of transparency to the public.

      I guess my point was that this is not “one case where DS went to far”. He pretty much always goes too far, having attacked Chris’ wife several times over the past month, making up stuff about them getting divorced, claiming she’s a porn actress. All while promoting his own games which failed miserably (they were removed from steam (I think by him) because he sold a couple of copies a year and only got negative reviews). He is a good source of entertainment, and whenever he gets caught using an alt account to support the claims of his main account there are some lulz, but he spreads unproductive toxicity, which draws attention away from any actual concerns which could be (and often are) discussed civilly.

      • Tinus

        Please repeat that statement in a couple of months after CIG has collapsed. Or you think that Chris really needed a fourth shell company in the UK? To sell IP of the things he “invented” with Star Citizen? Difficult, since he doesn’t have to rights to license CryEngine or Lumberyard? But sure, give him you money. He hasn’t been to Monaco lately.

        • Lawford Bonladur

          Will you be honest enough to say sorry two months from now if that’s not the case?

          • Tinus

            Say sorry for what? That it is a scam by now has been clearly established by now, no need to question that. The only thing that’s not for sure is when exactly Scam Shitizen will collapse. CIG might make it into 2018, but Gamescom 2018 will have to do without a scripted R&D demo clip from CIG.

            • Lawford Bonladur

              Is that so? What’s the name of the judge who has made it officially a scam? Or are you maybe maybe pulling that out of your sorry ass?

              • Tinus

                Oh dear, you really are not reading the signs now are you? I don’t know what the name of the jugde is that will convict Chris for scamming, but convicted he will be.

              • Rasto

                Didn’t you just say that “it is a scam by now has been clearly established by now”? Now it is “will be”?
                Reading the signs, lol, that sounds like the logic and reasoning of some spiritual newage religious moron.

              • Tinus

                No, it is not “will be”. It just is. And religious people are morons, that’s true, but that has nothing to do with being able to see that Star Citizen has turned into a scam.

              • Rasto

                Sorry but Hitchens’s razor applies. Your claims without evidence are going to be dismissed.
                Besides, the “signs” i am reading say that CIG is struggling to climb this insanely tall hill CR lead them on, but i am certainly not seeing anyone running away with money.
                If this is all we know, then I smell unsubstantiated lies to defend own hidden agenda, just like Little D, or religious crybabies referenced above. And i hate liars.

              • Tinus

                If you hate liars, you really must hate Chris Roberts, since he has lied a bunch of crap together over the years, it’s beyond believe. And you know, there are things true that hadn’t had evidence at the moment of writing, like Einstein. That’s the thing with Einstein and Derek, there were both right.
                But you just keep on believing Chris and by all means give him your money. If you think that after six years and 160 million, he still needs more, so be it. You’re only paying for his exit strategy now, but hey, that’s your choice. Just don’t come crying when (yes when, not if) CIG collapses and all your money is gone too. Rather than pushing Derek aside, you really should pay attention to him…

              • Rasto

                How typical for irrational unreasonable lunatics to take Einstein in their illiterate mouth. No evidence, just straight from feelings to bold claims. People who supported Roberts’ vision do not need retards nor failed “developers” to tell them what to do with their money. They have their opinion pretty damn well informed, because CIG’s transparency is unprecedented.
                And Little D’s laughable crusade won’t change anyone’s opinion.

              • Tinus

                because CIG’s transparency is unprecedented.

                HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh man, that’s one of the best quotes ever about Scam Shitizen. Oh dear, are you in for a surprise.

              • Rasto

                This is even better comedy than “you just wait when The Lord Jesus returns”. I keep hearing this empty lie since 2014.

              • Tinus

                Clearly you are mistaken between comedy and drama. However, watching the drama of Scam Shitizen unfold indeed is quite hilarious, that is true. The lord jesus won’t return, because there is no god. As there in the end will be no Star Citizen too, that seems fitting.

            • Joe Blobers

              Tinus is the new Tufao, difference is that comment are much shorter 🙂 But fortunately we still have our refreshing scam, collapse 90 days top! That keep the wait entertaining between each patch 🙂

              The funnier, today the guy say:”CIG might make it into 2018, but Gamescom 2018 will have to do without a scripted R&D demo clip from CIG.”

              Few days ago he said that “CIG will never make another Gamescom in 2018” 🙂
              After 3.0 is delivered, he will serve us: no gamescom in 2019… 🙂

              Note: And guess what… DS give a hug/like to his minion 🙂 This is so cute.

      • Torb Inator
    • Monsieur de Comte Beaujangles

      Derek the Doughnut is a ringpiece of sphincter shrinking ineptitude.

      • Tinus

        Be that as it may, he is still right.

        • Eisberg77


        • Monsieur de Comte Beaujangles

          No, and stop worshipping his ring.

          • Tinus

            I am not worshipping his ring. You clearly have mistaken me with someone who at this moment still blindly believes the lying, thieving and scamming Chris Roberts. Who, by the way, right now is working very hard on an exit strategy for the disaster that’s called Star Citizen.

            • Monsieur de Comte Beaujangles

              Right Derek.

    • Lawford Bonladur
    • Lawford Bonladur
    • T.W.

      Glad you still have the ability to laugh. I know that when you go to bed you cry.

    • T.W.

      Wow another copy&paste… you like that, don´t you bad boy?

    • Torb Inator

      At 24 he shouldnt be a junior developer, if he is any good.

      Anyway he is also selling his couch and his “vinyl setup” which may look something like this.

    • Manuel

      At this point Derek seems completely obsessed and simply wants to cause as much damage to CIG as possible by any means necessary. Even now in this very comments section he has admitted that he is intentionally lying and fabricating stuff just for the sake of spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) for his hate and harrassment campaign.

      Captain Ahab has to go hunt his whale I guess…

    • Torb Inator

      We can safely say that this developer and indeed this media piece is


    • Palonto

      Not washed away in the storm?

    • Joe Blobers

      Congrats to this Junior developer. He said publicly what CIG’s employees think about DS… and no need to make fake review on Glassdoor as yours minions did to soil CR years ago….. you got it served right at your door step and publicly….

      And this is just the beginning DS… not that I encourage people to insult other but your gross incompetency and hate campaign against SC community to hurt CR his way too much visible 🙂

    • BobJackson

      The game gains supporters faster then it loses whingers, its kitty grows daily, the ships are coming along well, the patches get better and better, its already a playable and beautiful space game and a historical precedent. Its unlikely to fail but possible – precedents often fail due to the talentless, hypocritical and small minded. Even if it does Chris Roberts will be remembered as a visionary that tried to bring the people a grand game like nothing seen united under one vision despite the stress, drama, hurdles and personal cost. Money is the smallest cost in life. Those of us lucky enough to partake in this magical and wondrous ride into new game territory, the dream of a better sort of game (crowdfunded/backer lead) and outer space knowing that space will never be unlocked for us in reality (in our lifetimes) won’t regret some lost dollars – already the joy, conversions, imaginings, community, and spectacle have paid our investment off one-hundred fold. Assorted failed game designers will not change that no matter how ethnically confused, freckled or how ugly their eyebrows may be. They at the end will have to contend with fans, legion, from those who have substantial skill sets to those with political or massive buying power to simple food and beverage servers at their regular who know they did nothing but try to destroy their dreams – using personalized attacks on even vulnerable women and children.. Its just beginning they won’t have much luck going forward and I hate to think how little of the ‘food’ they consume is not someones funk lol

    • Dragon75

      Derek Smart is in no way shape of form trying to alert Star Citizen backers to the potential pitfalls of the development or its problems, or for that matter concerned with the welfare of the company, game or its development.

      He has been going out of his way to try and crash the project by presenting misinformation and outright lies.
      On several occasions he talked about lawsuits, which never happened.
      He shopped around and got Escapist to run a story about CIG that was full of false and misleading information.
      He claimed to have a case with the FTC against CIG, which was proven false.
      He even went to the length of doxxing Roberts and his family to the point where their lawyer had to send a cease and desist letter.
      (Doxxing = search for and publish private or identifying information about (a particular individual) on the Internet, typically with malicious intent.)
      He is far more interested in hacking on Roberts and the SC development than working on his own game.

      Basically he is the absolute last person anyone should listen to when it comes to any kind of game development, not just SC

    • Torb Inator
      • Joe Blobers

        Nice parody of prophecy of doom. Obfuscation, lies, deception.. we got it all. Congrats 🙂

        Here is a much better link for those looking to understand why DS and a few sockpuppets do rush to hurt SC community and CR:


      • Dragon75

        Where is the proof showing that CR took backer money to build/maintain F42 for his brother Erin and lifelong friends?
        Where is the proof that shows they bough back F42 from Erin and took money out of the company?
        Where is the proof showing that they are in any kind of debt?
        Where is the proof shows Erin Erin is taking larger than normal salary?

        So far all I have seen are allegations, but absolutely nothing to back them up.


    • Torb Inator

      Torb Inator • a minute ago

      “There was lots of arguing within our guild, but in the end the whales who had contributed the most had the final say, and we refunded our three completionist packages, originally purchased at $15k each, so $45k total refund. We sidelined many other great games and commercial opportunities waiting for Star Citizen, but in the end we can’t wait any longer, and a new generation is joining also who have absolutely no interest. The final straw was evidence presented the committee of Chris Roberts blatantly lying, we don’t mind the delays but couldn’t handle the lies anymore, and it left us wondering what else he is knowingly lying about.”

      • Joe Blobers


        This subreddit section is out of any control like Escapist was by providing “proof” of ex-employees ID that was proven fake. Even better This the nest of all guys rushing every SC article to shoot refund. Astormapproachs is one of this subreddit active member. just to say that everyhting they can do to hurt SC COmunnity will be done…

        They is already proven fake Jpge of 16K (a couple weeks ago). OP on Reddit call moron people saying it is fake and provide a ten seconds video refreshing a screen…
        This can be faked with some relativelymedium video podcast skill and video editing tools. He could have also simulated the White House garden with alien walking on the grass.

        Here is another “Org proof jpges” of 108K$ refund. Totally false of course.

        Trolls are desperate for visibility with major patch upcoming in October.

        Another “drama”.. another flop. But for now, I am the one with the biggest refund with 108K$ 🙂